Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have recently been looking and buying new racks for sterlite and rubbermaid tubs. I was trying to remember when the first racks came out and who the breeders were to first use them?

If I recall in the early 80's (circa 1983) is when I first saw a Rubbermaid blanket boxes. Before then people used tanks with screened lids and homemade cages made out of wood. When I was a kid visiting Western Zoological Supply in the 70's all the snakes were in tanks. Same thing with Hermosa reptile in the 60's. Then somehwere down the line the shelving apparatus showed up and we have not looked back since.

It would be great to know who incorporated them first and how they thought of it? Was it Ruiz? Lemke?
-----
"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

Hahahahahahahaha. Hey, I probably met you at Hermosa, I worked there in the sixties. Chuck Maclunn(sp) was the manager. Last I heard of him, he worked for Joe Lewis, founder of Rare Earth.

Anyway, I have some boxes and a rack in storage, I used from about 1973 or 74. And heck if I can remember who started that. I am pretty sure it was not me. hahahahahahahaha. And it was not Lemke. he came along much later.

I also saw Ruiz's and Osbornes early setups and they were not Sweater boxes. Hmmmmmmmm I am thinking as I go along here and its not popping up.

Sweater boxes became handy when we produced far to many animals to house correctly, hmmmmmmm I mean the old way, in cages. I think I have a snake cage from 1971 or so.

I will ask my wife tomorrow, maybe she will remember. Or slap me around until I remember, hahahahahahahaha.

It probably happened around the time cheap plastics hit the market. Anyway great question. Cheers

I can add that down here Bill Haast at the Miami Serpentarium was using racks like a restaurant baking rack with aluminum boxes a very long time ago. I’m sure these pre-dated plastic sweater boxes. As anyone with an interest in snakes in the olden days probably made it a point to visit the Serpentarium when down this way, his set up would have inspired a lot of future breeders and those maintaining large collections in a smaller space. Now where did HE get the idea, I don’t know... Great question, I hope FR gets inspired real good!

This picture shows the metal boxes in a roll around rack, and if you look at the crowd and that young looking guy grabbing the cobra, you’ll know this is about thirty sumin’ years ago...

He came to mind first but of course "nowadays" he uses the stainless ones. we had similar ones but they were wooden crates stacked like that..
I wonder who actually had the rubbermaids first...
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I’ll bet it was those college frog nerds again...

For some reason, In my thoughts, I include, the successful keeping. Not simple housing. As in the old days, all manner is awful cages were used to keep snakes.

I remember a Dr. In the long beach Cali area, that had a huge COLLECTION, of snakes, all kept in gallon jars, on their sides with little wooden legs to keep them from rolling off the shelfs. Of course, nothing was bred in those type setups.

I worked at Ross Allens way back when, 1970-71 area and breeding was more accidental then planned. Please understand, there indeed was some breeding, but it was a matter of luck and timing. Particularly in Fla and SoCal. Where I for instance keep snakes in a carport, all I did was feed them and the rest just happened.

I call the modern successful era, a time when we planned and succeeded to breed individual snakes and raised them from hatchlings and bred them to Particular mates. So I relate that to when Sweater boxes were used in conjunction with the modern successful era. Line breeding is an example of the modern era. I because line breeding in the mid sixties. Sweater boxes came in to use a decade later. Again, successful useage, not just as a means of housing non productive snakes.

UPDATE, the first box set up I used was Maryland supply Rat cages with tops made of wood. I notched the corner reinforment of the tubs and used rubberbands to secure the lids down. I cut windows in the lids and set up long shelves. I actually have some of those in storage as well. I also have the rat cage bottoms(still in use as mouse cages) Hmmmm. Let me check and maybe I can take a pic of that. Man is that funny. Cheers

FR we may have met although neither would remember it now..haha
It was back in the '70's ( I was 12 or so)that occasionally I'd take a stray edb or two to Ross.
Did you ever meet Ray Singleton?
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

"Hahahahahahahaha. Hey, I probably met you at Hermosa, I worked there in the sixties. Chuck Maclunn(sp) was the manager. Last I heard of him, he worked for Joe Lewis, founder of Rare Earth. "

I think I bought my cages from Hermosa Reptile. Didn't they have those wooden ones with the front glass held on with two strips of thin wood and the tops fit in and then placed down. Then a wooden peice that is held on only by a single nail that fits through the lid and you turn it to lock and secure it?

We probably passed paths more than once. Man that all seems like yesterday and not 38 years ago.
-----
"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

I can tell you that the San Antonio Zoo had a rack system that resembled what we breed rodents in way back when. Back in those days there was probably ONE place that manufactured stuff for reptiles.

Maybe it was Furmont?
-----
http://www.hcu-tx.org

There were these, I made and used these starting about 1971. There were mouse cages I bought from Dan Musseti(sp) I bought 150 a VERY LONG TIME AGO.

As we developed a need to house lots of snakes, it because apparent that "another method" was needed. My Snake cages were topnotch(the first drawer cages EVER) But what to do with hundreds of babies and raiseups. So the rack system started.

At first we used cheap shelving. And a cage like this,

In fact, this is one of the cages used. I still have that 100 or so lids(something the matter with me) They are in pretty good shape, I think I will, oh never mind.

We used plumbers heat tape in the back for heat in the winter. They for all intents and purposes were the same as a rack system of today.

We went from using them for raiseups, to housing adults and breeding them in larger cages. Then I moved to larger tubs for keeping them in all the time. I found some old blanks for the larger ones, but I must have sold all the finished cages.

With the larger cages we housed them in the tubs, but quickly learned to nest them "outside the box" which is something mostly missing today. This was done by me and several other breeders like Erine Wagner.

I later developed a very large an effecient nesting cage. I did this because as weird as it sounds, I HAD to be in west texas or mexico, at the very time my snakes were nesting. So I made Large deep nesting cages that housed all gravid females while I was gone. Man did that teach me alot.

From there the sterilite boxes were developed. And that was it for me. After a decade or so, I found that sweater boxes, TOOK THE FUN out of keeping kingsnakes, so I moved on to pythons. Which still HAD to be kept in cages.

I want to add, I learned everything from those large cages with drawers. After that, learning was downhill. Also, from those drawer cages, I announced that all you really need is the drawer and not the top part(the cage) I believe that was when the idea took off.

Dang FR, I don't know what to say. You are something else.

100 lids? Those things must have taken up a lot of room. I guess that was another reason the sweater box racks took off.

Speaking of room you must have a pretty big place to store all this stuff. There should be a museum of herpteculture or something. ...did you hear there might be a TV reality show in the making with a snake breeder and the ins-and-out of snake breeding in the process. Kinda like "Miami Ink" or "The Ultimate Fighter" shows but with snake breeding. Don'tchya just love the 21st century.
-----
"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

One more of my "firsts" hahahahahahahaha I remember in 1972, I captured and released three blairs kingsnakes. hahahahahaha I think that was a first.

A year later I went out and on the first night I caught a large adult female suboc and an a large adult female bairds. I told myself, I was not going to keep them unless I found mates for them. Which I did not, so on the last night, I took them out to release them. Funny but as soon as I pulled over, another herper pulled up right behind me. He asked me what I was doing, I told him I was releasing these two female ratsnakes. We talked for two hours on the side of the road. I believe it was Bern Tryon, who worked at Dallas zoo, and is not at a Tenn. Zoo.

Anyway, The thought of the early days seems so long ago, especially when sitting at your table in Daytona. Cheers

let's go flip some undescribed species and let them crawl off... that's fun
-----
http://www.hcu-tx.org

I have done a whole bunch of that. Both in our hemisphere and abroad.

In fact. I found an undescribed gecko or two and I brought them to Roger Conats attention. He very nicely explained to me this. If these are found out away from mankind. Then do not tell anybody. As all it will do is harm. He explained poachers with collect them, biologists will collect them. People will come from far and wide to collect them. People will study them. He said, no good will come from any of that. He then explained, they will be found soon enough as mankind spreads everywhere. But if you found them around people, by all means discribe them. I found his words to be meaningful and helpful.

My bet is, if I would have found an undescribed copperhead or whatever he had a keen interest in, he would have wanted to have them discribed. Cheers

Frank,
I like the way Conant thinks. I'm not really into descriptions, I just like finding them. Still his words ring true, people find them eventually.

I like finding common things too. For me it's the thrill of the chase, right up to the moment of discovery. After that it is anticlimactic.
-----
http://www.hcu-tx.org

However the comments about not telling people apply to the Albino Goini story. The guy who collected the female that laid that clutch would not give up its locale, as Goini range is pretty small. He feared collectors would flock there hoping to find Goini and would rather have kept things as is... apparently it is not a well known spot. His decision was respected by myself and another friend and we never told anyone. I have always said herping is like fishing in the sense that people hear of a good spot or where something unusual was found and it is a target. Next thing you know that hot spot is dead, and it has been cleaned out and turned inside out. I know it is a lot of fun to go out in the field, though I never do anymore. I am happy with my captive snakes and have plenty to mess with here at home. To find something new in the field, and to not try ot capitalize on it as far as money goes is something very admirable in my book. I know I couldn't resist myself! Nice to know some reptiles are out there just doing their own thing as nature intended
Tom Stevens
-----
TomsSnakes.com

I like to get out and away from the throngs,to find anything is a plus, to find a targeted species is icing. The best is when you get "that feeling", only to discover it was you being observed by the reptile!

-----
Todd Hughes

Hey Rainer,
I lived in Hermosa Beach, many years ago. I graduated from Mira Costa H.S. in Manhattan Beach. I've heard a lot of great things about Hermosa Reptiles, but they were long gone by the time I got into reptiles. Are you talking about the Western Zoological Supply that was in San Bruno, Ca.? The one owned by Dale Sylvester? Dale, and Bob Macken, who I met years later in Seattle, taught me a hell of a lot about reptiles. I lost Dales phone # a while back, and have no way of contacting him. I know he was close friends with Doug Price, and I've e-mailed Doug, but have gotten no response. If anybody knows Dale, let him know that Phil Patton would like to here from him. I remember a rumor that Dale also had something to do with starting the East Bay Vivarium? Western Zoological was a great store, and Bob Macken has closed his store too. I guess it's gotten too hard competing with the Internet, and herp shows for many of the old stores. It's kind of sad, many of their owners had great experience and a ton of non care sheet info too. Great post. Interesting question!
-Phil