Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is a repost from the end of my other post. BTW, he is eating again, I went back to mice and he mauled them!

I just wanted to run my cage idea by you guys. 3 sections, base, cage and hood. Base is a 6'long x 3'Wide x 2'deep metal round end stock tank framed and put on casters. This has 2 feet of top soil/sand/vermiculite mixture at a 50/25/25 ratio. The middle part is the cage that is 6'long x 3'wide x 4' tall. Framed in wood with acrylic front sliding door and sides and laminate back. On top of that is a hood that is 6' long x 3' wide x 1' tall to house the lighting. This will be framed in wood with laminate panels and a wire grating for the bottom.

Questions include:
-What kind of lighting and heating setup should I implement?
-4ft too tall for monitor? I plan on putting ledges and branches in there for him

Response from HH-

I like the idea of framing a stock tank & putting casters on it. I would still put some kind of protection between the wood frame & tank.

If your sav is a female the 6ft tank would probably do, but if it's a male that gets to be 4 1/2 - 5ft long, I'd be concerned if it was big enough when your sav is full grown. The cage I'm building is only a 6(L) x 4(W) but it's a temporary cage that I plan on modifying later for something else. If you start a new thread you might want to ask if people think that's a good size or not.

The middle part is kinda high at 4ft tall but you could make it work with additional levels like you mentioned. My main concern is housing all lights within the hood. Most people suspend the basking lights from the ceiling to where they're usually less than 2ft from the substrate surface. Take a look at "newstorm's" cage in the 2nd pic of this post: forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1402762,1403426 I'd be concerned about whether you'd be able to keep the ambient temperature high enough with all lights in the hood.

I don't like the idea of acrylic doors/windows because they get scratched up too easy.

Keep in mind that this is just my personal opinion and we all have different ideas and tastes. I see cages every now & then with bare plywood interior walls. I imagine they don't last very long but it's the way some people do things. It's up to your skills and how much money & time you can put into it.

Catch ya later!
HH

I got the idea of the base from Proexotics and the idea for the cage from Cagesbydesign. It incorporates the best of both worlds and everything necessary for a monitor setup. ANy thoughts?

I have one real concern, and that is cage size. A six foot cage or even a six foot(by 3ft) area to dig in, is much to small for a monitor that gets 6 foot. Even if it tops out at four foot in total lenght, how could it burrow in six feet of dirt?

To me, it appears to be a raise up cage your planning and if it is, then you do not need two foot of dirt.

The problem with BT's are, they are a huge burrowing monitor. Those ten foot troughts are much more appropriate for that species. (thats even small)

I often get confused as allowing deep substrate is normally to allow nesting. Which means you will have a pair. If your intentions are to keep a single animals, then you do not need to have two feet deep of dirt. Do you see my confusion. For a simple shelter burrow you can do all manner of cage tricks to accomplish the same thing.

Of course for smaller monitors, I would recomend deep substrate for any situation. But for a GIANT lizard, dude, thats one lot of dirt. Cheers

I agree. I don't know how big he will get. But I should plan on an 8 foot long cage. This will be a single reptile enclosure. I am going to plan on 2 feet of dirt, in a stock tank. If this looks like it won't work, at least it willbe in 3 sections, so I can rebuild the bottom and not the whole thing. Any thoughts on lighting/heating?

See attached for my general idea except mine willbe constructed of wood. I will be utilizing the basking ledges and shelves like shown.

Also,
Does anyone have information/advice on finding 6-8' metal stock tanks. I live in Southern California. All the websites that have the tanks aren't local and I am not sure if shipping would be worth it or if I should just go find a store where i can order one. What has everyone else done?

in our 10 ft circular trough, the adult Ionides would dig winding tunnels that maxed out at 12 ft long. that was a limit of the trough, not their digging desires : )
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

robyn, did you get your stock tanks delivered or did you pick them up from the supplier?

for the 10 ft circulars, the supplier was in north Denver, and we needed four, so we had them delivered.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Feed stores, home depots and all such have them. They are in all but the middle of big cities. If your coastal Cal. you may have a hard time finding them. So drive inland a tad and have at it. Anywhere people keep horses, they have cattle troughs.

By the way, that type of cage, the one pictured, is nearly worthless for keeping BT's. They would tear that cage apart in no time. They are big strong animals. That cage looks more for birds. Monitors are a different beast. They should be moving, digging, throwing dirt, etc etc etc, on a constant basis.

They are always moving things about. Cheers

I am going to give him 48 cubit feet of dirt to tunnel and dig in. Then 96 cubic feet to climb and lay around in. It will be strong, unlike the pictured cage, but will still be a visual display with front and side glass/plexiglass. What is the best material to use on the back wall, where I will be attaching shelves and basking ledges?

you will definitely need full, strong walls, something like 3/4" ply framed in or equivalent, at least, but i would cover it with FRP if you want it to last at all.
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

TOO SMALL MAN!!!! I have a 54" female BT. She was in a 4x8, and she looked cramped. All that room goes fast when there is a 5' animal inside it.

In my opinion, a 5'x10' should be the MINIMUM requirement for an adult BT.

As far as the dirt substrate... My BT is now in a 10X10 outdoor cage with all the dirt in the world for her to dig. She dug like 2 or 3 holes, then i put a big rubbermaid bin full of peat moss in there for her. She hasn't dug since, she prefers the plastic tub!!!

So... Like Frank stated above, 2' of dirt really isnt needed, as long as you could provide good enough hide areas.

Hi, Please understand, that burrowing is a need based activity. They burrow more in some seasons then others. For instance, they will burrow for winter or the dry season. And they will burrow if its too hot on or above the surface. During wet, they often climb.

To breed them is when burrowing is key and demanding.

So yes, when its cooler out, burrowing is not necessary, so other shelters are used. Of course you can control the conditions so that a monitor does not feel compelled to burrow. But then burrowing is such a good physical activity. Particularly in a confined area. Its much easier to allow digging then any other form of physical activity. Cheers

Whats the deal with outdoor cages? What type of environment is necessary? I know the one blackthroat lives in Florida. I live in Southern California. I know during the day, the sun is hot, but at night it gets pretty cold. An Florida is more humid. Anyone have outdoor cages in SoCal?

Its not hot enough in coastal SoCal. End of that story. If it was, you would have them running around in your parks, like Fla., Cheers

I live in San Diego. I googled horse trough and found every kind of trough and stock tanks I needed. The place was only 5 minutes from my office. Try these guys if they are close. They will order the big ones and it only takes 4-5 days. If you don't have a truck barrow one and save yourself the shipping. As a bonus every girl that works at that place is drop dead gorgeous.

http://www.marystack.com/?gclid=CIHEvc-bh48CFRFoYAodbwZp4Q

I don't let any of my varanids outside. They are simple to fast to smart and to expensive to risk it. I keep torts outside during the summer but the risk reward factor is always an issue. Raccoons are a capable predator and I have lost many pond turtles to those damn things. I could see them killing a cold varanid in no time.

I'll check it out. I am still deciding whether to get a 6 or 8 foot tank. This is going to be inside and 8 feet might be too big. But I'd rather build now and not have to later if he gets that big. Thanks.

Going to get my 8'x3'x2' metal trough tomorrow. Question about soil. I am looking to go Home Depot to get all of my substrate materials. I am going to do the Top Soil, Sand, Vermiculite mix. For a 300 dry gallon tank, the ratios would be 48 cu ft soil, 12 cu ft sand and 12 cu ft verm. This is for when I build up and the entire tank is for substrate. Until then, I am going to do cover the tank with acrylic and fill it as high as a 130 basking spot, prob 1 ft with 2 45w halogens. this would be 12 cu ft soil and 6 of sand and verm. Online it doesnt look like Home Depot has vermiculite. May I ask the purpose of this? ITs a clay, so for good burrows? Will I find it if I go in the store probably? Thanks for the help, Maynard is gonna love it!

Jeff,
I'm really short on time at the moment so I can't elaborate on everything, but I wanted to give you a quick "heads up" on vermiculite and perlite.

Most DIY stores like HD have small bags of this stuff, some of it has fertilizer added to it, some of it doesn't. Avoid the fertilizer. Your best bet for those things is from a foliage nursery shop. In fact, you should be able to find a better base than top soil there, too.

Later!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

In too much of a hurry. Ha! Foliage nursery shop = landscape stores, etc...

HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

UPDATE-
On Saturday I drove an hour inland to a feed store to pick up an 8x3x2 steel stock tank. It barely fit in the back of my SUV, but I got it home and washed it out, so that part is done. Sunday I went to home depot to get some top soil, sand and vermiculite. I didn't think they would have verm. but I would get the soil and sand anyway. The original top soil I wanted to get was 3 cu ft for $6, not bad, but it was very coarse and had lots of bark. There was another that was very fine for 1 cu ft for $3. I noted that and went to look for sand when I saw...DECOMPOSED GRANITE!! Tons of it in .5 cu ft bags. There wasnt a price, so I went to ask the guy. $3.87 for .5 cu ft. PRetty expensive, but this stuff is exactly like Robyn says. To fill my tank would take 96 bags of this stuff. Unfortunately, it is so rare that anyone has a need for this that the pallet I was looking at was red tagged and being sent back to the dealer. I wanted it bad, so I found another Home Depot that had 51 bags. I bought 24 (could barely push the cart I had them on!) and 2 4x3 pieces of acrylic and some hinges and bolts.

I was so surprised Home Depot had decomposed granite. I am guessing their prices are high, I am going to try a landscape store to see if they have it for cheaper. One question - this stuff is HEAVY, 96 bags of this stuff will make my tank impossible to move and possible impossible to use casters. I have this setup in an extra room in my house with tile floor. Should I use casters anyway or just build on the floor. I want to frame the tank first before I put the granite in.

I also ordered two 50W halogens from proexotics and a temp gun. I still need to hammer out how to keep it warm during the night.

I know nothing about decomposed granite, other than what I read in the thread about it last week, or whenever is it was. As long as you're comfortable you got the right kind. But dang, that's expensive.

I don't think I'd use the casters unless they were set into a wooden frame that would support the tub so the casters, themselves, aren't putting pressure on the tank where they're located (as if casters were screwed into the tank itself).

One other thing. If the floor under the tile is wood instead of concrete, I'd think real long & hard before I set the tank up with that much weight. You definitely want to at least set the tank so that it runs perpendicular to the floor joists (across the joists, not in the same direction as the joists run).

I suggest laying down several boards between tank & tile to protect the tile, too.

How much does each .5 cubic feet of that decomposed granite weigh? And you'll have a total weight of (?)

Good to hear you're makin' progress. Keep on truckin'.

Later!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Each .5 cu ft bag of decomposed granite weighs 40 lbs. So for 96 bags to get to 48 cu ft, that is 3840 lbs. That isnt happening. I am going to try a decomposed granite/topsoil/sand mixture at 25/50/25 respectively. I will start with half or 24 cu ft so I can play around with my ratios just in case its not the right mix right off. I think I can cut some weight that way. I plan on framing the tank with wood and then loading it. Depending on how heavy the sand and top soil is, I will add some casters.

I am still looking into the lighting and heating situation. It gets about 50-55 here at night now and will get colder. I have been looking at Proexotics and their stock tank setups. It looks like the big ones have a bank of 3 halogens on each side of the tank. If Robyn reads this, are they all halogens or is one a heat light/emitter? I am interested in how I should heat the tank at night. One side or both, lighting one side or both. And I am sure this will all change when I stat building vertically for him.

Thanks again

I went ahead & put casters on the bottom of my 6 x 4 enclosure. I figured that if I ever could budge it, I could move. Might have to run a chain thru a window & hook it to my 4WD truck, but hey, it's moveable. Ha! Ha!

If the cage is going to be in a room of the house that's on the same heating/cooling system as the rest of the house, you shouldn't have to worry much about night temps. But, I've got a hunch you've already thought that one out, just making sure.

Some leave the lights on 24/7 and just make sure the monitor has a dark place to go. Just about any hide can be made plenty dark enough, whether it's on the hot or cool end. It doesn't have to be pitch-dark.

I've not seen many, if any, monitor enclosures using CHEs (ceramic heating elements), but I think they are a viable option.

Each setup is different & takes some finagling, experimenting, to get the basking site temps & ambient temps balanced out. Even the same cage/setup may not produce the same results in my house as it would in yours. That's why it's so important to set up the lights so you can have as much adjustment as possible. (lower the lights, raise basking site, add additional heating source for hot end, OR, add additional heating source for cool end, increase/decrease airflow, etc... It can take several days to get an enclosure adjusted to bare minimum specs before moving the monitor in.

I suggest you start out with the two bulbs you've got coming from Pro Exotics, placed together for a basking site, and go from there. By positioning the basking site a tad towards center of cage you can increase cool end ambient temps. What I mean is, don't put the basking lights as far as they'll go towards the hot end wall.

Hang in there!
HH

BTW, once again your thread has moved on down the list and not getting as many views, now. Maybe start again? Ha! I dunno. Whatever ya think.
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American