Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just hatched a clutch from a burgundy-ish mom... the babies look a tad different... now if you think they are normals, feel free to tell me that. I would be very interested in hearing particularly from people that have hatched Fires if they look anything like this... I think I have seen some pictures online that resemble this quite a bit..?

Thanks for the help!

Bristen.

Here's one of the babies that I find looks most like a Fire to me:

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Here's Mom:

Here's Dad:

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Here are two Spiders still sitting in the egg... one appears quite light and yellow.. it also seems to have gold striping going on the back as well:

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that high gold one looks very promising. looking forward to it's [i hope] promt debut. nice job. kd

it's very light and has a gold stripe almost full body.. it looks awesome! Certainly a cross of some sort.. More pictures to come...

>>Here are two Spiders still sitting in the egg... one appears quite light and yellow.. it also seems to have gold striping going on the back as well:
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>>___________________________
>>www.RoyalGemReptiles.com
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www.RoyalGemReptiles.com

Vanillas or thunders that would be my guess. The mom looks really kool, pick a male and breed it back to momma, If you get the super form then you know you hit it, If not then they are probably just nice normals, but they look kool to me worth dinking with.

Here are my fires

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www.Snakebstr.com -- Remember the Name it's in the Game!!! the Ball game that is

www.Snakebstr.com

WRONG !!!
WRONG... The only time I was WRONG is when I thought I was WRONG but I was really RIGHT.....LOL...LOL...LOL

The adult female I have that produced those 2 babies you just got is reallly similar to that female Bristen used to make those babies........see the similarities. . . look at the heads.

Jared
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~ ASK ME ABOUT MY BALLS ~

Jared, are you talking about specters? When I saw Bristen's female and the babies, I swear that is the first thought I had -- that they reminded me of your specter babies.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

If subtleties like that can be used to identify a morph......... Doesn't it make it hard to call anything a "normal"?

P.S. I'm in no way doubting anyone's judgement. I just find it amazing how something as small as an abberent head pattern or slight variance in color can completely alter the way another morph is displayed. Should name them the "Key Ball" because they unlock some special doors.

In my opinion the answer to you question would have to be YES. Just because a snake has a black spot on his/her side or head or a light spot on the head could or could not make is genetic depending on what created the marking. Obviously if the scales are burnt or scarred then that would NOT be genetic, But more time than one subtle markings(fires,yellow bellies,mochas,vin russo hets,phantoms,vanillas and a few other that I know I am missing)have produce incredible offspring. Just because the morph is not as extreme as the really visual morphs does not mean it is just a normal. We all know what a truely normal ball python looks like and when we see stuff out of the normal box we tend to lean towards that animal vs one that looks totally normal. If people didn't look at ball pythons this way the ball craze would have gone no where, it is because of people looking for traits and breeding them together that we have all of the crazy stuff coming from ball pythons. If you have a snake that has a head spot and she produces babies with head spots than that is a genetic mark, it may not be a pied or albino but none the less still genetic. Without people looking for kool little traits we might not have come this far in the ball morph craze.
This is just my opinion but it has proven itself time and time again. But then again some people just don't see the differences from a totally normal and a subtle morph, they all look normal to some people.

thanks David

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www.Snakebstr.com -- Remember the Name it's in the Game!!! the Ball game that is

www.Snakebstr.com

WRONG !!!
WRONG... The only time I was WRONG is when I thought I was WRONG but I was really RIGHT.....LOL...LOL...LOL

Totally different.
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~ ASK ME ABOUT MY BALLS ~

I think I will be setting them two babies up and seeing what they hold. They are kool looking and I like to have weird looking animals in my collection. With all of the kool morph being made everyday putting little twists on some of the morph always seem to make kooler morphs.

Thanks again

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www.Snakebstr.com -- Remember the Name it's in the Game!!! the Ball game that is

www.Snakebstr.com

WRONG !!!
WRONG... The only time I was WRONG is when I thought I was WRONG but I was really RIGHT.....LOL...LOL...LOL

see the mickey mouse shaped headspot on mom? it is perfectly visible on the babies in the top picture, on the lower snake for sure. high gold, the belly is right.[almost clean] congratulations, kurt d.

I posted these a short time ago but hopefully this helps. Your babies do look very similar to Fires but the adult female doesn't look like a Fire to me.

I had heard that Vanillas and Fires look a lot alike as hatchlings and I would guess those babies are Vanillas or perhaps something else new. Either way, congrats on the babies.

Fire with a normal

I agree with others in that mom and babies look a lot like vanillas. Can't wait to see that spider, congrats on a kick a-- clutch.

here's some adult vanillas purchased from GCR to compare. typically though, the head on vanillas fade out more as they get older. I think your girl looks alot like the "mystery" gene or specter ball like jared stated. Regardless it's a pretty snake and you at least know its genetic so breed it to her son or a yb and find out, lol.

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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

you don't think the mickey mouse spot is diagnostic? look at the one you just posted. that's an honest question, i know you see more vanillas then anybody. the belly is wrong for het superstripe, i've held tom's and amir's and checked them out pretty closely. he would have to produce a super to know for sure it's a vanilla/thunder, but people post things all the time that clearly are not, that one looks perfect to me and so do the babies. kurt d.

let me re-phrase what I said. The head-spot does look similar to a vanilla's but what I was saying is that in adults, and look at both of ours, the rest of the head tends to blush out as well and that usually happens with the GCR vanilla line. Maybe it's just the GCR line with their selective breeding that brings it out more, I'm not sure as I haven't looked at too many of Tom's line. Would I be surprised if that one proved out to be a vanilla, absolutly not.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

has the Vanilla x Spider ever been produced? Does it look anything like my Spider cross? Also, do adult Vanilla's turn "burgundy-ish"? Just asking... looks like nobody is ready to commit to either side at this point (I think more are leaning towards the Fires though)...

Thanks!
Bristen.

>>let me re-phrase what I said. The head-spot does look similar to a vanilla's but what I was saying is that in adults, and look at both of ours, the rest of the head tends to blush out as well and that usually happens with the GCR vanilla line. Maybe it's just the GCR line with their selective breeding that brings it out more, I'm not sure as I haven't looked at too many of Tom's line. Would I be surprised if that one proved out to be a vanilla, absolutly not.
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>>Josh & Krysty Hutto
>>J&K Reptiles
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>>Various Ball Pythons:::
>>
>>1.0 striped vanilla
>>1.0 spider
>>1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
>>1.2 Albino and hets
>>2.3 het Pied
>>0.6 50% poss het pied
>>1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
>>a bunch of normal female breeders
>>a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males
>>
>>0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
>> over production of rats, lol
>>0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
>>1.1 corns
>>
>>
>>a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!
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www.RoyalGemReptiles.com

The last one still remaining in it's egg is a Spider... I'm fairly confident it's another cross, but we'll see once it comes out.

The one that I think is a cross:

A few group shots of the ones that left their eggs today:

Let me know what you think!

Bristen.
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www.RoyalGemReptiles.com