Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a EBT hatchling that is about 3 months old.
It has been inside, 75-90F, fed well. About 2 weeks ago I found another one in the outside pen. The first one has been very perky but seemed to slow down with the "cooler" winter weather. A few days ago I noticed what I thought was fecal material coming out, but on closer, hand lens examination, I think it is his inside skin or something. Today I took a look at him and noticed some wetness coming out of his nose.
So, finally the question: we have 1 vet here that seems to know more about turtles and I will take him in to the office tomorrow. But is there any advice (type of anti-biotic, etc.) that you have?
Thanks, Patsy
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Patsy

The Vet said these things:
Place hatchling in a small amount of table sugar several times a day. The sugar will cause the liquid in the extended tissue of the cloaca to shrink, which will allow the tissue to go back inside the turtle.
After a few minutes, brush off sugar and apply Panolog cream (anti biotic).
That box turtles are tortoises. They do not need water because they get it from their food.
That the food should be mostly veg matter. Give a small amount of chicken or beef canned catfood once a week.
That getting sunlight through the window & aquarium glass wall reduces the amount of UV that the hatchling gets and should be supplemented w/a reptile light.
That feedling worms & fly larva could introduce harmful parisites and are making the hatchlings diet to wet.
I brought in a fecal sample. Not parisites were found.He said that my worms from the worm bin would be ok.
The hatchling's nose was not wet, nor did it have that symptom yesterday.
Any suggestions?
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Patsy

Patsy,
I don't think your vet has a lot of experience with box turtles, based on some of the info he gave you. Box turtles are not tortoises, and they certainly do need water. They are terrestrial turtles and can go for extended periods of time without water if they get enough moist food, but they should really have a shallow bowl of clean water available at all times to drink from and soak in. A clay flower pot saucer works well. The water should be changed daily. A three month old box turtle will much prefer to eat live food, like worms and small insects. They can gradually be introduced to chopped up fruits like berries, cantaloupe, banana, and then finely chopped vegetable matter, like squash, carrots and some greens, but chances are he'll be much more inclined to eat the live food that moves around and gets his attention. If the prolapse doesn't get better pretty quickly, I'd try to find another vet that has more experience with turtles. Good luck.
Mark

thanks. yep, that's what I thought. I have kept it alive for 3 months following about that regime. whew. well, that vet is the best we got.
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Patsy

The Vet said these things:

"That box turtles are tortoises. They do not need water because they get it from their food."

FALSE! Box turtles, while more terrestrial than some, are actually semi-aquatic (Emydidae). You need to either find a vet who knows more about box turtles, or urge this one to do some homework and or consult with one who does have more experience.

"That the food should be mostly veg matter. Give a small amount of chicken or beef canned catfood once a week."

FALSE! An adult box turtle's diet is about 50% protein over all: a hatchling's diet is even higher in protein. Canned pet food tends to have a higher fat content than is ideal, and should be fed sparingly if at all.

"That getting sunlight through the window & aquarium glass wall reduces the amount of UV that the hatchling gets and should be supplemented w/a reptile light."

TRUE. Box turtles are also sensitive to day length, so winter sun should be supplemented with artificial light for more than one reason.

"That feedling worms & fly larva could introduce harmful parisites and are making the hatchlings diet to wet."

POSSIBLE, depending on the source of the worms.

"I brought in a fecal sample. Not parisites were found.He said that my worms from the worm bin would be ok."

AGREE

"The hatchling's nose was not wet, nor did it have that symptom yesterday."

Sometimes the hatchling Easterns I have here(and adults for that matter) will dribble water/moisture out their noses if 1)They just drank alot of water, 2) they just ate something really juicy, or 3) a combination of the two.

Be on the lookout for a nose that is *constantly* wet, bubbles, open-mouth breathing, labored breathing, lack of interest in food.
Link

Thank you for spending so much time with my post. Everything you wrote agrees with the information that I've gathered over the years. There is no other choice here. That's the best we got! what did you think about the sugar part of the regimen?
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Patsy

I was a Vet. tech for a while. I agree with the other posters, and think that this Veterinarian's advice should be taken lightly. You'll have to do most of the research here, and only use the Vet. to get what you need.

Sugar is commonly used to aid in the retraction of prolapsed tissues. It is generally safe, but the most important issue is to determine the cause of any prolapse. Make sure to supplement your turtle's diet with vitamins and minerals, and to provide UVA/UVB lighting. A prolapse is not a disease or illness, it is a symptom. I sure hope that you and the turtle can get through this successfully.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

thanks for the advice. got the light. added some fresh mown grass to give more moisture. I "spritz" with a garden hose so I know that the substrate is moist. will add vits & min to the diet(papaya, greens, squash, melon,strawberries, maggots,red worms, turtle food, etc)

Were you the one who responded about avocado perhaps being bad for bt? well, I did some more research, including asking other maui turtle owners, decided that it was probably ok to feed just the meat, not the skin & pit and then stopped doing so!
thanks again, will keep you posted.
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Patsy

Yeah, I jumped in on that topic. I think you're right about the avocado.

One thing to think about...you mentioned that you are feeding maggots taken from rotting avocado. Since it is thought that parts of the avocado fruit contain low levels of toxins, there is the slight possibility that the maggots are becoming infused with the toxin. This is a common occurrence (think of the tomato horn worm and nightshade plants) in nature. Not only will insects contain toxins from plants they eat, but the toxins can actually bioaccumulate within the insect. This can make them even more potent than the actual plant.

It would be such a shame because maggots are a terrific food for box turtles, but you may want to refrain from feeding these particular "avocado" maggots for a while.

It is just a thought. I hope this helps. Good luck.

your probably right on that one (maggots/avocado toxin.)
Have you ever had a hatchling with cloaca prolapse?
It seems a bit better today.
Regime: 2 times daily
soak in tepid water about 7 minutes.
soak butte end in sugar about 5 minutes
put panalog cream on qtip and press gently on protrusion

any other advice?
it has never lost its appetite.
Not hard to give up the maggots...
/p
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Patsy

"Have you ever had a hatchling with cloaca prolapse?"

No, I have never had this happen. Also,I've never heard of a hatchling with this problem until now. Your treatment sounds reasonable. I don't know what else could be done. It is just so exceedingly difficult to treat hatchling turtles, as you are finding out!

Best of luck!