Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My retic is going through a battle with RI. He just went through shed and it was horrible. I still have peices on him that I am soaking him to get off. I read somthing that said stress can cause a bad shed. His humidity is 60 to 70%, and the air temp on the 1/3 is 90 with the floor temp upper 90's and then floor temps go down to 78 towards the cool side. Everyone tells me that the set up is fine. So why am I having all these issues?

Changes I made after RI, he is still getting shots. Instead of half the air temp being 90 went to 1/3.

Starting misting the cage twice a day, to bring it up to 70% humidity.

He has only had one good shed and that was when he was on Aspen, instead of News paper. That stuff is a pain to clean and I would not go back.

Any advise that would help me out I would apprciate. It seems I do fine with the young ones and then when they get bigger, they get sick. I feel like I am not doing any thing right, and causing my guys to get sick.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger
1.0 Amel Retic
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Red Tail
0.1 Blood Python
1.0 Green Ananconda
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa

Ambiant temps should be around 84 or so, and the hot side should be in the low 90s. From what I have read, you should provide a dryer environment until they get over the infection, then go back to normal humiditys.

I have a Tiger het. albino male that is 3 years old. last breeding season he got a mild RI...I raised his temps and it went away. Now...He is being kept in my new snake room this year and my temps are 84 during the day and 80 at night....His cage has a 90 degree hot spot and the cool side is 80....OUT OF NO WHERE he got another RI!!!!....I just gave him his 2nd injection of FORTAZ/CEFTEZADIME and he isn't really showing any improvement. usually my snakes will show improvement after the 1st injection.....I hope he will get better soon so he can breed

As to your post...What kind of drugs are you using on your retic?
Also if any one has any suggestions on what to do in our situations please suggest away..Thanks,
Justin

The first important point is that you should never lower the humidity on a tropical boid that has an RI. Under standard conditions, for burmese, bloods, retics, etc., I try for an ambient humidity between 65% and 75% and a substrate gradient temp across the cage of from low 80's cool end to low 90's warm end. The problem is that this turns into more of a juggling act when you start raising temps to assist RI treatment, especially with low room humidity in the winter. Warm cage interiors rapidly drive humidity out into the low humidity room.

Here’s the main issue with temps and humidity. Because the amount of water vapor the air can hold increases rapidly with temperature, the relative humidity actually decreases with increasing temperature, unless the evaporation potential can be met. This means that unless the rate of evaporation can keep up with the demand for moisture brought on by the rising air temperature, there will be an increasing net loss in relative humidity. A water bowl has one of the slowest rates of evaporation of almost any setup, as the surface tension of the water inhibits rapid evaporation. Cages with temps in the 80’s range usually do not have huge problems with humidity. However, when raising cage temps into the 90’s, the rate of evaporation from a water bowl alone will never reach anywhere near its potential, and the humidity within the cage can easily drop below 50%. Frequent misting, wick system substrates, or evaporation dishes containing saturated cloth, paper towel, or aspen shavings have more rapid evaporation potentials and will produce much higher humidity levels than even a large water bowl alone.

I used to battle low humidity levels in the winter, especially with blood pythons. I really believe that as many winter RI episodes with boids are caused by low humidity, as are caused by low cage temps. Low humidity air dries the lung tissue of tropical boids and this damages the tissue making it more susceptible to bacterial infection. Also, you may be using the correct antibiotic, but if the humidity is too low, the effectiveness of the treatment will be compromised. When raising the temps for RI treatment, make sure to closely monitor the humidity and try to maintain the percentage in the 75% to 80% range when dealing with tropical boids. Sometimes, the appearance of initial RI symptoms are caused by lung irritation due to low humidity, and many times it can be resolved before progressing into an actual RI by raising the cage humidity. However, observe closely so the appropriate action can be taken if the problem progresses.

On another related and important issue, it is highly possible that your humidity was even lower than you thought. Lower price humidity gauges are notorious for being inaccurate and usually read low. Unless you are willing to spend 150 to 200 dollars for a NIST traceable hygrometer with a certificate, you can never be sure if yours is reading accurately. However, you can test your own quite easily to see if it is reading properly, and here is the procedure:

1. Place a teaspoon of salt in a bottle cap or small cup and dampen it with a few drops of water (without dissolving it) to make it the consistency of wet sand.

2. Carefully place the wet salt and the hygrometer inside a see-through container and close tightly. Don't allow any of the salt to directly contact the hygrometer. You can use a zip lock bag provided it seals good and you leave some air inside as well, or a plastic food storage container as long as it seals airtight.

3. Let it sit for at least 8 hours at room temperature and note the reading on the hygrometer without opening the container. It should read 75%, and the difference is how much your hygrometer is off.

4. If it does have an adjustment screw or other adjustment device, adjust to 75%, through a small hole made in the bag if necessary, and then check again using the above procedure.

I have an expensive certified dial hygrometer I purchased many years ago and have checked it periodically using this method, and it does appear to be a very accurate way to check humidity gauges.

Kelly

You are always answering questions. I appreciate the help. I am thinking of having someone come over here and check my cages to make sure everything is set up right. I thought the post above was incorrect about humidity based on prior conversations but was going through and reading others to see for sure.

Thank you again
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger
1.0 Amel Retic
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Red Tail
0.1 Blood Python
1.0 Green Ananconda
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa

I am probably going to get jumped on but what the heck. I feel humidity is no where as important as people claim. I hear comments all the time that say "Up the humidity", and I am sitting here scratching my head wondering why. Keeping most snakes too humid causes more harm then good in my opinion. A damp warm cage is a haven for bacteria. On the same topic but a different snake the Barkers wrote an interesting article in Reptiles mag a couple of months back. The article was on bloods, however they too felt that keeping bloods to humid seemed to increase R.I.'s. The bloods that were kept in a drier environment had fewer issues. It is funny to think about this because a friend of mine and I were talking about this very same thing a year or two ago. He has a nice collection of bloods and retics and keeps them on the dry side and has no problems. A different friend of mine preaches that bloods need a humid environment and has all kinds of R.I. issues. You be the judge.

I have never had a retic come down with a R.I. and I keep my cages more dry then the norm. When my snakes near a shed I dump their water bowls to help aid in shedding. Once they shed I change the paper and back to norm. I am not a vet only a hobbyist. Keeping my retics at a normal home humidity level seems to work out well.

I prefer belly heat with a hot spot around 95F. I do not know what method of heating the cage you are using. Thought I would throw that in too.

Jim

See, I would think my retic was on the lower side of the humidity when he got it. Mine could have been a combination of temps to high and humidity to low. I use heat panels and belly heat and red lights.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger
1.0 Amel Retic
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Red Tail
0.1 Blood Python
1.0 Green Ananconda
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa

what you stated. I believe that people who are having RI problems and are advised to "up the humidity" are told so because they are running at ambient humidity ranges below 50%, which is going to aggravate the heck out of an ongoing RI. During the drier winter months here years ago, I had experimented and checked humidity levels in my cages when I purposely didn't try to maintain it with anything more than a small water bowl. It rarely measured above 50% even with reduced ventilation and UTH. Summer is a completely different issue, and I never need to worry about it then. While some healthy tropical boids can tolerate levels in the lower ranges, many cannot. A lot of it has to do with the humidity levels outside the cages in the surrounding room as well.

I agree that humidity levels above 75% are not necessary under typical conditions, and the Barkers stated in their article that they maintain 60% to 70% with their bloods. They also stated that the substrate temps were in the low to mid 80's, with even the basking spot only in the upper 80's. At those lower temps, 60% to 70% humidity isn't difficult to maintain and that’s why your friend does not need to sweat his humidity levels with his bloods. I have maintained a blood python colony continuously since the mid-1980's and would agree with the Barkers maintenance practices. I have noticed over the years that if the humidity falls near 50% or goes above 85%, you start to run into problems with bloods. It's all a matter of your definition of "high" and "low" humidity. The main problem is when people have a major portion of the cage in the 90's that it causes the humidity problems, because at those temps, you knock the humidity down rapidly and make it difficult to maintain it at even moderate levels. If your other friend is having reoccurring RI problems with bloods, he is either running ultra-high humidity, >80% or has sub-optimal temps.

On the topic of lower humidity levels for certain species, I have a colony of green anacondas that I have maintained for many years at about 60% humidity, and only 8 inch water bowls for the adults. They have never had a health problem and reproduce on a regular basis.

Kelly

For the money that I have invested and future issues that it could cause, this is not a bad investment.

What about the normal humidty gauges, with sensors. I have seen them for 35 to 99 dollars.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger
1.0 Amel Retic
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Red Tail
0.1 Blood Python
1.0 Green Ananconda
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa

The lower price gauges will work, but not have the accuracy, or more important, the linearity to be accurate over a range of changing air humidity. It is the old adage that you usually get what you pay for. Gauges under $30 or $40 can easily be off the true humidity reading by 10% or 20%. However, it is really important to check all humidity gauges for accuracy, no matter what price range. The salt test that I listed in a previous post above works very well for this purpose. I have attached a web page from Cole Parmer that has some of the better gauges available. The brass case, $160 one is probably the best you can get for under $500. It is very accurate and has good linearity, and is very similar to the one I use. The others are lower price, and accuracy drops off with cost. As stated above, no matter what the price, always check them periodically.

http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_index.asp?cls=7430

Kelly