Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok.
A freind and I are long in the tooth herp keepers, both have kept many species, snakes, lizards, tortoises... So please no silly answer, I think we convered the obvoius to some degree.

Back in the summer my freind brought 2 leopard geckos for his daughters amoungst the managery of herps as mentioned he has kept over the decades he has kept leopard geckos and one which lived with him for some 13years, so hes not bad at it but the 2 he brought have been a royal pain in the **** from as much as they dont put weight on in fact they slowly loose it, 1 died 1 was still going scratching our heads we put it down to gene pool, well he brought another from completly different source (and by the way these are supposedly sexed by incubation to be female.) again the remaining original one is still skinny and we think the new adition is loosing weight, to add to this I looked after them while he was away only to find one lost the end of its tail over night and complete inspection we are unable to find the tail end either eaten by crickets or the other gecko?!?!

We just sperated the 2 and he said hes seen one go to toilet but the cricket looks pretty undigested.

We've checked temps again and again with multiple thermometers, the diet is dusted black and brown crickets, and wax worms and fresh water, thinking it was dehiydration hs took to spraying paper towel in the hide but doesnt seem to have made any difference, had UV now no UV light, substrate is a big slate heated with mat so no ingesting substrate.

We think we have concluded its keeping them together and stress but everywhere says for 2 females is ok??? or possibly illness passed on from one to another, or with the last decade of in breeding these animals to get hypocarrotorangecross (sorry not big fan of this!) the gene pool is back to the days of chameleons when no one could get new bloodlines.

anyway, appreciate any ideas? vote on the fore mentioned conclusions above? or has anyone seen this first hand?
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Richard Butler
United Kingdom

www.pettortoise.co.uk

I couldn´t care less if you have 45 years of experience with snakes, lizards and other reptiles... You started with the wrong foot...
-You shouldn´t house together two leos without previous quarantine.
-There is no need for UV light.
-You shouldn´t feed waxworms as a staple diet since they have a huge amount of fat and are quite addictive.
-You shouldn´t leave crickets in their tupper/terrarium....
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4.7.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 AFT
0.2.0 Homonota Darwinii (Talus & Gracilis)
0.0.1 hemidactylus turcicus
0.0.1 Tarentola Mauritanica (Pickles)
0.1.0 Cham Caliptratus (Clotilde)
1.0.0 Golden Retriever (Cafu)
1.0.0 Black cat (Felipe)
0.0.x Tenebrio Molitor
0.0.x Zoophoba Mario
0.0.x Lobster Roaches
0.0.3 A. Campestratus
0.0.1 G. Rosea

Learn to read "So please no silly answer"

Thanks but "no disrespect", your the type of person I wasnt looking to ask, read the post he has plenty of experience with leopard geckos im guessing more than you are old.
Again read the post hes not using a UV light, last time read the post no one said he was feeding wax worms as staple diet.

Go waste someone elses time, and be quick before your mum gets home and finds you on the net!

As for couldnt care less, I could care at all for A your reply and B your species list.

no more questions your honor.
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Richard Butler
United Kingdom

www.pettortoise.co.uk

You don't say how old they are, and because of the tail nip I'm guessing you may have two males, or if both are female one is being dominant over the other. Good you seperated them. Another question is have you had fecals done on either of them yet? Sounds like parasites. These are both uneducated guesses, but I think I'd start from there.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

Sorry, their immature, 4 months old.

Thanks, thats what we been thinking possible domination/stress but their not mature or parasites.

Just wondering if anyone else has fighting young and seperating them has shown it was or if thats unlikely then im thinking illness.

No fecal inspections have been performed as of yet.
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Richard Butler
United Kingdom

www.pettortoise.co.uk

Well, if you are going to be rude to the forum, expect it back in a lot of cases. This is one of the best ones for understanding, but hey, you don't have to listen to us either.

The key fact in your post is "undigested looking crickets" I'm guessing probably could have even been thrown up. Also no quarantine. Vet/ Fecal, whatever you want to do, the fact that one already died, nobody is putting on weight, unless this is your/his first time keeping any reptile, there is very little excuse to have not already:

TAKEN IT TO A VET....

all obvious signs of sickness, parasites in leos are all too common and most likely your source.

If you want additional "silly answers" read through the back pages of this forum, all the symptoms you describe are repeated over and over again with the same result and the same advice.
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0.1 Albino Leo Gecko
0.1 Crested Gecko
1.0 Dear Boyfriend
Departed: Harvey and Spock

Hi Richard,

Leopard geckos, with a few exceptions and regardless of keeper experience, are hard to goof on to the point of death. What's the problem?

Inbreeding seems to have done a few less than perfect things, but perhaps not the damage you appear to assume. Some strains are smaller on average than they could be (all attention given to color), some have become (again, on average) somewhat morphologically misshapen in the head region.

I'm not aware of support for any line/inbreeding that has resulted in less disease resistance in leopard geckos. Rather (at least with regard to the past 3 decades of captive breeding leopards and many colubrid constrictors), the exact opposite seems to occur, since only the most sturdy animals make it through our mistakes to reproduce and leave their characters among offspring.

The problem with your geckos could be temperature (you don't mention what your gradient range is).

The problem could be disease. Cryptosporidiosis is a REAL scare to many breeders on this side of the Atlantic, as it's easy to spread and may be present in many collections. It's characterized by weight loss, thin tail, regurgitation (of largely undigested parts that stink) and nasty feces, among other things. Some far less threatening parasites can cause loose, smelly feces, however.

The problem could be stress from keeping more than one specimen together, but not necessarily (you didn't mention cage size/type, # hide spots, etc. ) . I can raise 6 or 7 hatchlings of normal-sized strains in a 32qt tub for the first couple of months before growth necessitates thinning them out. I can keep 3-4 mature females together in this type of enclosure without issue. Please note, that in these setups, there are multiple hides with equal temperature gradients and humidities.

The problem could even ( ? ) be failure to adjust to your feeding regime. What were they eating previously - crickets and waxworms, or something else? Leopards raised off of mealworms don't always make a quick, smoothe transition to more mobile prey like crickets.

Get either one of Tremper's books (the big one or the little one) on leopard geckos, and your questions and many more will be aided in the future.

Hi casichelydia,

Thanks fo the constructive reply.
I mention inbreeding regarding one of the tails is kinked, i recall reading a paper years back on the constant inbreeding of chameleons and some resulting factors where kinked tails and also from too high incubation temperatures.

The temp gradient is from 32C to 24C daytime dropped out to low of 22C at night.

The enclosure has plenty of hides, at both ends, its 2ft by 18inches.

Led to beleive this was the previous diet from the shop, but ill have ask my fiend to be sure.

I read through the 2 books we have TFH and Practical Python books on Leopard Geckos, and again no mention of females fighting or young fighting, and was unsure just how common parasite infections were in captive geckos the books seem to suggest uncommon - maybe their out dated.
"Cryptosporidiosis is a REAL scare to many breeders on this side of the Atlantic" - this is the kind of info I was after.

thanks, I think your right Ill let him know asap.
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Richard Butler
United Kingdom

www.pettortoise.co.uk

It's hard to believe that the English can't type English, but here goes.

casichelydia covered the basics, so I think we'll question your post, rather than answer it.

If you and your friend are as experienced as you say, why oh why do you need to be asking questions about your "friend's" gecko's behavior?

The fact is, you gave no pertinent information regarding the gecko's set-up, there is no mention of how MUCH he is feeding it, or anything else a "experienced" leopard, or reptile, keeper would have mentioned.

Also, after a statement like..
"We think we have concluded its keeping them together and stress but everywhere says for 2 females is ok???"
Why, oh why would you do this to another gecko after one had died? Temperature sexing, for one, isn't exact. Maybe the one gecko has crypto, or some other debilitating disease. But, I guess you'd know if that were the case, being an expert 'n all.

If you don't want "silly answers", don't give us anything to give you silly answers to.

How about some pictures of the set-up, and geckos? Maybe a picture of the stool? Anything that will actually assist us in helping you, rather than your assumptions.

Cheers,
Andrew
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2.2 Corn Snakes
1.2 Leopard Geckos
1.1 Crested Geckos
1.2 Green Anoles
1.0 Russian Tortoise
3.2 House Cats
0.0.1 African Millipede

RIP
Alice, Bruno, Lars

.

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1.0 Hypo stripe, Het RW from JL (BJ)
1.0 HypoTang from Crested (Apricot)
1.0 Tremper Albino from Petsmart (Cloud)
0.1 Hi-Yellow Leopard gecko from Petco (Beatrice)
0.1 Stripe female (rehabilitated rescue)(Pepper)
0.1 Jungle het RW hatched by me! (Jungle Bunny)
0.1 SHCT Leopard Gecko from Petco (Brite)
0.1 Tangy Mutt Leopard Gecko from Petco (Rainbow)
0.1 RW Stripe hatched by me! (unnamed yet)
0.1 Leucistic rescue (Lucy?)
0.1 Tremper stripe from JMG (unnamed yet)
0.1 SHCT hatched by me! (Blinky)
0.0.1 SHCTB hatched by me! (Sunny II)
0.1 Ball Pythons
RIP Peaches, Ghost, Bill
Adopted out: Goldie, Leucy, "Q"
Hatched: ~50