Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Honestly, I haven't read all the posts on the subject. This may have already been mentioned. If it has I apologize.

Previously I made light, I said "maybe the rats came from China".
In a way that's a possibility. What if the food the rats had eaten came from China? We've all heard of the Melamine contaminated dog and catfood from China, haven't we. What is the primary diet for snake food rodents? Dog kibble, as cheap and as high a protien content as is possible. Why did the Chinese put Melamine in their dog and cat food products in the first place? To artificially raise the protien content at a cheaper cost.
Looking back at the chronology of things, it's entirely possible the rats were fed some bad feed from China; not enough to kill them, but enough to do harm to the snakes that consumed those rodents. It's also possible dead and dying rats were culled daily and frozen. The producer doesn't want to throw his investment away, if he doesn't have to.
Well?
jsc

And another thing -- those dogs and cats that were seriously effected by the contaminated feed from China, how exactly were they effected? Kidney failure! Which brings me back to my original hypothesis.
I think I have my facts straight on this. Anybody?
jsc

hi iam thinking about getting a boa and saw your post. i breed boxers but did not have a problem with the food that iam feeding them. owning dogs i was concered about the china food problem too.i think you are right if someone fed their rats that contaminated food and then you give your snake one of the contaminated rats. you would think that your snake then becomes contaminated also? or maybe it would not effect cold blooded animals.or does it. anyone? oh i also breed cornsnakes

That really makes a lot of sense. I am sure glad I breed my own.
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www.jpcboas.com

If I may ask...where did you get them from? I've heard about this before and it scares the heck out of me. I started, and maintained, a nice size colony for awhile, for just this reason. But my wife couldn't stand it any longer so I had to get rid of them all. I'm going to have to go back to buying.
Also, what are the signs/symptoms of a snake having eaten a toxic rat?
Thanks Scott

Go down to the thread that begins: New Colors, Oct 17th by Boas4U.
That's the start of the topic. It's a long one.
jsc

I just read the thread below today, and I am very concerned. I get mice and rats for my boa and ball python through an online supplier, and I just want to make sure that supplier is OK. Please let me know what suppliers I need to avoid. Please email me at iggy_girl6@yahoo.com.

Thanks!

i breed boxers.did anyone have blood work done at a vet? thats how they test for the toxins in dogs.you would probably have to bring the snake right after you notice any changes in your snake.as the kidneys filter out the toxins. also where are you getting these rats from? i think we should be aloud to post the company's if their rats are harming our snakes.
greg

IMO, It sounds like a realistic theory, but "What IF?" You know, what if we are wrong? We would be ruining businesses that may or may not be the problem. It does sound likely, but sometimes a breeder gets surplus from labs or other sources to fill orders, or to run a sale (this is all IMO and from bits and pieces I've learned) so it may not have been their rats and possibly originated elsewhere. Perhaps we should contact the breeders to find out first and see??
I've had 'spots' appear on my 8 yr old boa after a shed and I am not even sure she ate any of the rats I bought from a dealer, since she normally eats rabbits; those I get from a friend that feeds her bunnies what is produced at the grange here, no dogfood. I have bought about 70 rats from a place in cali, perhaps they were allowed to thaw too much on the trip before they were popped back in the freezer, or were outdated/kept frozen too long, or allowed to sit too long before being frozen originally, but I feed mostly homegrown rodents and any dog food I used was also used to feed my dog. So, it could be a possibility, but then again, sometimes a color-removing shed or foul smelling mess could be from stress or heat related incidents. We don't really know 100% (it sounds like bad dog food could be a factor though) do we really want to drag a business name into this?
Just concerned I guess...
Steph S.

I absolutely DO NOT want to drag a businesses' name into this.
I haven't and I will not. Speak to others about that.
jsc

Hey jscrick, just wanted to say... I didn't think you would be mentioning any names, if you were, you probably would have dropped a hint in the beginning! I think that is way cool.
My post was mostly to offer my opinion for people who are wanting to know who the dealers are... just so they know why people haven't been disclosing the names (maybe). I think that all the people who have posted on this topic, and yourself, are very professional to offer an opinion and not bring a name into the story. I have a lot of respect for all you people that are trying to help us out with the info, and not badmouthing others... thanks!
I do agree though that most (if not all) of these death/ organ failure/bad shed/bad stool cases are probably a result of a bad batch of rats, regardless of why they are bad; it just makes sense!
Steph S.

one other thing.i have 5 boxers and one was showing symptoms of toxic food. so i called my vet to see if the food i was using was on the list of toxic food. it wasn't i was lucky. my vet told me that since my dogs all eat the same food they all would be showing the symptoms at the same time .so my ? is for the people who had the problem. did anyone have more than one snake with the symptoms of toxic rats at once. only because they probably feed all their snakes from the same co.and you would think that whole collections would get it at once?
just a thought.
greg

I ordered some rats way back.. It was rough buying $8 larges and having a $250/week rodent bill.. The new rats came in and I fed all of my adult boas.. More than half regurged and it happened for a while.. This was before much was said about toxic rats. I was clueless, thought maybe I wasn't thawing correctly, even though I was thawing in warm water.. Well, after a while the snakes adjusted and stopped regurgitating but their feeding schedule and growth rate just wasn't the same.. After I ran out of F/T, being the procrastinator I am, I went back to buying live for a few weeks.. They seemed much better eaters again (still clueless to toxic rats) and I didn't pay much attention.. I finally ordered another shipment and things QUICKLY went downhill from there.. I lost a few snakes.. A female who had just dropped a litter dropped dead overnight after eating a big ole F/T.. Within a week, a few more snakes died.. During this 2nd batch, they had ungodly smelling stool.. Once my female shed more than half of her color, I knew something was up.. I asked a question on another forum and someone mentioned toxic rats... it all made sense after that and I've been buying live, locally ever since and haven't lost an animal since!

my hoggie just shed & she looks like this:

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0.1.0 Hogg Island Boa
0.1.0 Albino Columbian Boa
1.0.0 Carpet Python
0.0.1 Red Albino Cornsnake
0.0.1 Aberrant California Kingsnake
1.0.0 Greek Tortoise
1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Hypo Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Leopard Toad
2.2.0 Dogs
1.2.0 Cats
1.0.0 Rabbit
1.0.0 Gerbil
....................................

Shed Your Fears!
http://www.freewebs.com/ShedYourFears

(the last pic is how she looked before the shed...)
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0.1.0 Hogg Island Boa
0.1.0 Albino Columbian Boa
1.0.0 Carpet Python
0.0.1 Red Albino Cornsnake
0.0.1 Aberrant California Kingsnake
1.0.0 Greek Tortoise
1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Hypo Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Leopard Toad
2.2.0 Dogs
1.2.0 Cats
1.0.0 Rabbit
1.0.0 Gerbil
....................................

Shed Your Fears!
http://www.freewebs.com/ShedYourFears

BEFOR

AFTER

OR DEATH