Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know there has been threads like this for all kinds of monitors, but they never go anywhere. lets try again just with blackthroats.

I'll go first.

Nice cage. just so you know though those plumerias are going to shoot through the top of that cage in no time. I've got an 8ft. tall Chameleon cage (also in Fla.)with that very problem now.

Instead of pics..ill post a site to the videos that will show some parts of the cage... Its his current, till i move out of the house..then he'll have a whole room for him..
P.S : i let him out to roam around the house and park sometimes.

http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?p=r&user=DonShez&page=2
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2.0.0 Cats (Garfield, Oddie)
2.2.0 RES (Bowser, Angela, Leo, April)
1.0.0 Varanus Albigularis (Godzilla)
1.1.0 Zonosaurus Quadrilineatus (Yago, Becca)
1.0.0 Python Regius (Kaa)
Sheriyar Bokhari

Ha Ha, really know nothing about plants. Which ones are those? We had a ton of overgrowth, plants everywhere when we moved in, so I just re-located some to her cage without knowing anything about them.

I like your cage... but like Shawn said. Do you have a heating box? A old keeper I know kept his albigularis outside in south FLm had no problems besides winter when temps dropped below 50. Keep in kind he had a wood cage.

Your Monitor looks... good, but are you for SURE? It's a female? Just wondering. Have any better head/body/tail shots?

I'll post some pictures in a while here of mine, It's 12x4x4, and I'm going to be building a much better one to allow for 4 foot of dirt in soem areas of the cage.

Cheers,
Chad

Any albig or bosc Ive had, or my flaviargus would be out in minutes, unless the floor is solid concrete under the dirt, which makes the cage very useless for a monitor that loves to dig and go under ground. Another point to consider the cage is not secure from the environment, and from local predators, or people. Consider that I know someone who lost a large gator to an insecure cage, she was shot by a jerk who broke in the outdoor building, but it was way more secure than that kennel.
The idea of using a dog kennel may seem like a good idea for a new keeper, but not at all for anyone who has kept them for any amount of time.
To be useful the floor of the cage would have to be solid concrete with about 2-4 ft of dirt on top of it, with built in drains that are escape proof, to prevent flooding. The sides of the bottom seem easy to slide through under the fencing before the bottom (monitors can fit through spaces you would never imagine, even at big sizes).
Consider how secure the top is, can it be torn by their claws, or strength. It may be a decent outdoor cage with direct supervision, but not to leave them alone in it.
Do you live in Florida? I ask because irresponsible owners in Florida in a few years have already caused us far more harm as monitor keepers with laws and restrictions than we have had in the entire history of man keeping monitors as captives.

The cage has a 2' corrugated fiberglass foundation surrounding it. The kennel overlaps that by 6" all the way around, and is bolted through it every other chain link. Underneath that 2' of dirt, there is more chain link, as a floor to the surrounding box, also overlapped underneath and bolted. The perimeter of the cage was filled with 6x6 brick pavers, stacked extra heavily in the corners, before it was back-filled. The top is also chain link, tied with securely every other link like everything else with galvanized wire.
Yes I do live in Florida, and NO I am not an irresponsible pet owner, who would build a flimsy outdoor enclosure to allow my monitor to escape.
Unless she gets her paws on some wire snips, this monitor will never escape this enclosure, period.

I hope your right and your monitor does not teach you a lesson.
Before saying very wrong, and being so offened see how your monitor does living in the cage for a few years.
If you say that is how it is equipped then good for you.
You would be suprised what a monitor can fit through, under, or around, but then again Ive been keeping them a long time, and have read thousands of comments from newer keepers who have had escapes through what they thought was inescapable. I know monitors such as albigs can rip through unprotected wood and other materials with their claws, even under a few feet of dirt (been there done it, learned from it).
I hope yours does not do so. Think about this, most of the others didnt think they were irresponsible owners, but theirs got away.
Even indoors in solid walled cages with secure doors, monitors get out, they are great to demonstrate weaknesses in caging.
Weather can cause your monitor lots of problems, I know most of the year in southern Fla it stays a great temp for monitor, but sometimes without warning it does not.
Feral predators, local dogs, local cats, feral pythons, feral ferrets, local kids, neighbors, birds of prey, are just some of the problems why chain link fencing is not so good for an outdoor monitor.
Do you have a heated hide box that can offer good temps if it drops to freezing or below? If not it needed to be in the cage before the monitor is kept in it. Ask FR about his outdoor caging, about his heated boxes, etc.
Like FR said, long before you ever attempt outdoor caging you should demonstrate the proper ability to master indoor caging, why most fail miserably with indoor caging, outdoors are very difficult in comparison. FRs outdoor cages have concrete bases under and around the entire cage, above ground a few feet, and underground several feet.
Ask Rob Faust about outdoor caging, he has had many escapes over the years, and mentioned some in his book about niles.
I wish you good luck, and hope any faults with your cage do not cause its demise or you to add to the escaped monitor problems in FLA.

Yeas I do have a heated box for winter time. The pics are a few weeks old, so you don't see it. I understand your concerns totally, every angle has been thought out carefully.

Even though I do feel it is inescapable, i plan to do some more reinforcing.

If you could see it in person, how this cage was built, foundation and all, and knew my monitor well, like I do, I'm sure you would agree with it's design.

I understand monitors are unpredictable, but she really does not dig much at all. Actually she climbs more than anything, lol. I have provided some dug out holes with plywood tops, and a couple hide boxes. She uses them all, at all times of the day. Now she has dug a little bit, but nothing significant.

Hello,

Nice detail and work on securing that enclosure, I hope that it works out well for your lizards. Also, to add to Shvar's comment, there is talk circulating now that the monitor problem in FL as well as some of the other "invasives" were introduced to the wild by the same groups that are promoting them as problems and cashing in on control programs. Best to you- Mike

REALLY... At last the conspiracy theory, ha ha.

I wonder what there motive is? Really makes you think.

I am originally from CT, and up there the DEP (department of environmental protection) insists there is no mountain lions/cougars/pumas living anywhere near CT.

People sight them dozens of times a year, reputable people.

This all started when the deer pop in CT was at an all time high, being very destructive. We had some warm winters and the deer were infesting everything.

Some people said the DEP introduced cougars to help with the problem. Its all a very good theory, I mean seriously, it sounds far fetched, but who is to say??

And in some places with cougars. The game commissions have never brought or introduced them, but there are instances of all predators coming back to their old haunts slowly all over the country. Why its about natural balance, we need them to keep nature balanced.
The only organization that could pull off a predator reintroduction such as cougars is the USFWS, they have done this with gray wolves, Mexican gray wolves, and red wolves (recreations or red wolves, not the real thing they were wiped out unfortunately). But the reason for reintroducing apex predators is to cut back on large prey items (deer, elk, bison, etc), to save needed plant life being destroyed by lazy unmoving herds, and to cut back on coyotes which are exploding in population country wide, its all about balance, something we cannot imitate.
Those monitors escaped and were left loose by owners that didnt want them anymore, happens every day country wide with cats, rabbits, ferrets, birds, snakes, fish, and dogs.

I am certain that monitors are turned loose by owners who no longer want them and that some escape. Recently on Craig's list in Orlando we had an incident with an individual who was looking to release a red-devil ciclid into a pond. I was went as far as to call FWC about him(who told me they couldn't do anything BTW.) and several people myself included kept e-mailing this moron informing him of the illegality and dangers of such an act. HOWEVER what a lot of people do not know is that ALOT of the introductions here in Florida are the result of irresponsible importers and dealers. When I first moved here 12yrs ago I personally witnessed a loose savannah monitor in the parking lot of an Orlando-area dealer. I brought it back into the facility and the owner told me it was one of the sick ones he dumped in the bushes and told me I could keep it if I want. I told him I did not want it since at that time I had no interest in Savannahs. His response to me was... and I quote..."WELL IF YOU DON'T WANT IT GO TURN IT LOOSE IN THE BUSHES OVER THERE" needless to say it went home with me, however it only lasted about 2-3 days as it was in horrible condition. At the time my wife was working at an Animal facility on I-drive and as a result I had lots of contact with a Lt. with FWC and I informed him of this incident. Nothing was ever done about this individual. I do know that this individual has cleaned up his act over the years but one of the incidents of Monitor sightings in the Orlando area was close to an area where he has traditionally done business and this person has been acknowledged as the source of a local population of a feral species of Lizard by the FWC. I do think he got in trouble for that one. I won't mention the species to avoid naming this person who has changed a lot of his ways.This person is not unique in any way. Dick Bartlett published a book on the Reptiles of Fla. that lists native and non-native species in Fla. and shows their ranges within the state. A friend of mine who deals extensively with importers once went through that book with me one time and showed me how ALL the feral populations coincidentally correspond with the locations of several importers/dealers in Fla. Is it just a coincidence that the largest most famous population of niles (Oh yeah and veiled Chameleons too)is in suburb to a city well known as the former home of several well-known reptile dealers? I don't know you tell me. BTW that nile population is not a recent phenomenon. It is 10 -20yrs. old and those niles look nothing like any niles currently seen in the trade.

But think about it, hundreds are bought and sold every day in Florida (they are less expensive as most are imported through the state), what do you think happens to most of them that live, they are released by those who just dont care, by those who buy cheap imported lizards and snakes then release them when they dont want them.
Of course this problem does not directly affect me, but it does affect me indirectly, it gives any governing body nearby the idea to regulate or ban something that those of us who enjoy and are responsible become the unfortunate victims of.
I know of a reptile business in FlA that was storing live reptiles in a storage unit in summer, then selling them online, the business was named after the town/city it was located in, minus the second word. Of course this same person switched businesses and names more than a few times all across the east coast, and probably still sowes alot of people money.
Im sorry but irresponsible owners are the majority of the invasive monitor problem in FLA, you just dont know about the releases done every day, whos gonna admit to it, a few morons thats all.

That's exagerating it a bit if hundreds of them were turned loose we would have many more invasives that we do. Sulcattas would be established for one and you never hear about them being found. With the exception of the population of Veiled Chameleons at the junction of I-75 and 80 in Ft. Meyers (does this location ring a bell? Cape coral isn't far. ) you don't hear about populations of Red- headed agamas anywhere else besides the intersection of 429(the greenway) and 17-92 in Sanford or the population in the Stirling blvd. area of Davie Fl. (are you starting to see a patern yet??? ) There are actually not as many releases as the news media would lead you to believe We are just the victim of slow news cycles. As far as the legislation goes we are just an easy target of a failing political party who are trying to keep their jobs. Lobbying by animal rights whackos hurts us also and I wouldn't rule out developers either. It is much easier to shine the light on an unpoular hobby as the source of enviromental harm than to have people look at your habitat destruction. Bulldozers will kill far more goppher tortoises and burrowing owls than Monitors ever will

"Sulcattas would be established for one and you never hear about them being found."

Actually, a good friend used to have a few wholesale suppliers that lived in FLA, 2 of the 3 were catching many exotics in their surrounding neighborhood by the hundreds, sulcuttas were a cheap common one on his list, and getting a few species he got from importers rounded out the list. But he caught hundreds of exotics species, those you mentioned among others.

"With the exception of the population of Veiled Chameleons at the junction of I-75 and 80 in Ft. Meyers"

LOL another cheap one he caught in several places, he even showed us maps he made, nothing in definite populations near any old businesses, etc.

"populations of Red- headed agamas anywhere else besides the intersection of 429(the greenway) and 17-92 in Sanford or the population in the Stirling blvd. area of Davie Fl."

Another cheap one he caught in his own neighborhood. He was selling nile monitors he caught in FLA many years ago over the internet, from a few locations. Caiman, pythons, you name it. These places had no wholesalers other than him, no importrs around, just neighborhoods with lots of "disposable pet" owners.
You would be suprised what you would find if you looked a bit closer, he told us once that he could almost find anything you wanted, and new where to find most of them by memory.
I guess he was recycling the invasives back to the pet industry. His prices were consistantly lower than his competion also.

I'll bet if you could get it out of him you would find that a lot of those poulations were near importers. Some of them spread further most do not. The exotic thing gets way blown out of proportion here. It is true that you can find lots of Iguanas all over south fla. but unlike niles and others Iguanas were almost mainstream and they can tolerate a lot more cold than other species add to that, that the majority of Tropical vegetation in S. Fla is from Central and S. America (their native habitat/food) and you can see why this one is more widespread. I would be really worried about someone in fla. selling me baby sulcattas they claim they found. They might just be baby gopher tortoises and that might get someone in trouble. If there really were populations of sulcattas here someone would definately notice. Thet dig holes bigger than badger holes and I used to play in Badger holes (abandoned ones of course and in Tx. no badgers here.) The minute someone saw one of these holes if they didn't see the tortoise they would scream "sinkhole" and that would scoop the nile story on the 6-o clock news.

But to add Ive seen gopher tortoise for sale over the years in reptile shows.
The list this guy could supply was amazing, and this was many years ago.
He also would show pics of the animals in his neighborhood if asked. He sold them cheap because the local kids could catch most of the animals and he could get them cheap, and those he could catch were all within walking distance. No exotic animal suppliers in his area, or in the past before this point in time, just lots of invasive exotics easily obtained within walking distance.