Reptile & Amphibian Forums

...between a Peruvian and BRB?

I just purchased Dick Bartlett's book about rainbow and neotropical tree boas and it says the centers of the side markings are lighter. I'm looking at pics in the book to see the difference, but it's not helping. Help anyone?
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Scott

Reptiles
--------
1 Colombian Rainbow Boa (Rocky)
1.0 Ball Python (Sultan)
0.1 California Kingsnake (Leota)
1.0 Eastern Painted Turtle (Yugi)
0.1 Red/Gold Bearded Dragon* (Irwin, R.I.P.)

Other
-----
1.0 Betta Fish (Tyrone)
1.0 Hooded Rat* (Clubber, R.I.P.)
0.1 Albino Rat (Isis)

Scale count, size, the Peruvians have bigger scales than Brazilians and also thicker head stripes also than Brazilians, the rest Jeff will have to explain
Bob

....is explained by Dick. I'm disappointed in him!
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Scott

Reptiles
--------
1 Colombian Rainbow Boa (Rocky)
1.0 Ball Python (Sultan)
0.1 California Kingsnake (Leota)
1.0 Eastern Painted Turtle (Yugi)
0.1 Red/Gold Bearded Dragon* (Irwin, R.I.P.)

Other
-----
1.0 Betta Fish (Tyrone)
1.0 Hooded Rat* (Clubber, R.I.P.)
0.1 Albino Rat (Isis)

Scott,
....The Peruvian gaigei subspecies was first described about 75 years ago by Olive Stull from a few wildcaught specimens. The preserved type specimen is in the collection of the University of Michigan. Doctor Gaigei was a close friend of Stull's husband and all three of them were on faculty at U of Michigan. Gaigei had a couple of other animals named after him including the Black Milksnake. The taxonomic description for the Epicrates cenchria gaigei subspecies has nothing that is different than Brazilian Rainbow Boas except for the scale counts which are lower. The scales of gaigei are larger and on adult specimens it is noticeable when comparing them side by side with a Brazilian. The scale count that is easiest to make is the number of scale rows at midbody. True gaigei have 41 to 44? scale rows at midbody. Epicrates cenchria cenchria have 45? or more. The range of gaigei does not extend into the northern half of Peru. Epicrates cenchria specimens from northern Peru have higher scale counts and are Brazilian Rainbow Boas. There is quite a bit of evidence of specimens from south central Peru and further south having intermediate scale counts indicating natural intergradation of the two subspecies. I started shopping for gaigei around 1993 and did not find any with the authentic lower scale count until three specimens I got in 1998. I have noticed on those three snakes and others with the lower scale counts that they have wider and darker dark markings and that this is most pronounced on the top of the head. I have no idea if this is a reliable morphological feature for identifying the subspecies. The Peruvian "fever" started when the Ross and Marzac book came out around 1989 and it has a PIC of a very pretty Epicrates cenchria labled as Epicrates cenchria gaigei. That PIC was a few years later published in a magazine labled as a Brazilian and so the lack of reliability in identifying Peruvian Rainbows has continued for some time. I have counted scale rows on dozens of specimens that were supposed to be gaigei and most of them had higher scale counts indicating they were actually Brazilians or intergrades. The governement of Peru has been protecting it's wildlife for many years. Exportation of wildcaught snakes is banned. There is one breeder in Iquitos who has a permit to export his captive born Rainbow Boas which he told me (several years ago) were all Brazilian Rainbow Boas. Many of those snakes have been imported and sold as Peruvians. The PIC in the Ross and Marzac book had pretty color and pronounced crescents and so many people mistakenly think that the color and crescents indicate the gaigei subspecies. Bartlett has written many great books but his one on Rainbow and Neotropical Tree Boas is not one of them.
Jeff

>>...between a Peruvian and BRB?
>>
>>I just purchased Dick Bartlett's book about rainbow and neotropical tree boas and it says the centers of the side markings are lighter. I'm looking at pics in the book to see the difference, but it's not helping. Help anyone?
>>-----
>>Scott
>>
>>Reptiles
>>--------
>>1 Colombian Rainbow Boa (Rocky)
>>1.0 Ball Python (Sultan)
>>0.1 California Kingsnake (Leota)
>>1.0 Eastern Painted Turtle (Yugi)
>>0.1 Red/Gold Bearded Dragon* (Irwin, R.I.P.)
>>
>>Other
>>-----
>>1.0 Betta Fish (Tyrone)
>>1.0 Hooded Rat* (Clubber, R.I.P.)
>>0.1 Albino Rat (Isis)

Have you produced any Peruvians this year?
-----
Russ
1.0 Basset Hound (Goofy)
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Apollo)
1.0 Columbian Rainbow Boa (Odin)
1.0 Guyana Red-Tail Boa (Ares)
0.1 Pastel Salmon Boa (Minerva)
0.1 Rosy Boa (Athena)
1.1 Western Hognoses (???)
1.0 Albino Cal. Kingsnake (Zeus)
0.1 Dumeril (Puzzle)
1.3 leopard Geckos (the breeders)
Melbourne, Fl

Russ,
..Not this year. Not EVER. REALLY frustrating!
Jeff

>>Have you produced any Peruvians this year?
>>-----
>>Russ
>>1.0 Basset Hound (Goofy)
>>1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Apollo)
>>1.0 Columbian Rainbow Boa (Odin)
>>1.0 Guyana Red-Tail Boa (Ares)
>>0.1 Pastel Salmon Boa (Minerva)
>>0.1 Rosy Boa (Athena)
>>1.1 Western Hognoses (???)
>>1.0 Albino Cal. Kingsnake (Zeus)
>>0.1 Dumeril (Puzzle)
>>1.3 leopard Geckos (the breeders)
>>Melbourne, Fl

Ahh, yes i recall you mentioning that you have had issues in the past breeding yours, is the male infertile? or was there miscarriages? (so to speak)
-----
Russ
1.0 Basset Hound (Goofy)
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Apollo)
1.0 Columbian Rainbow Boa (Odin)
1.0 Guyana Red-Tail Boa (Ares)
0.1 Pastel Salmon Boa (Minerva)
0.1 Rosy Boa (Athena)
1.1 Western Hognoses (???)
1.0 Albino Cal. Kingsnake (Zeus)
0.1 Dumeril (Puzzle)
1.3 leopard Geckos (the breeders)
Melbourne, Fl

Russ,
...One of the females I got in 1998 died last year gravid with 20 developing embryos. One or both of my males have wet dreams on the cage furnishings during breeding season. My remaining 1998 female is big and heathy. My younger females are not quite large enough yet.
Jeff

>>Ahh, yes i recall you mentioning that you have had issues in the past breeding yours, is the male infertile? or was there miscarriages? (so to speak)
>>-----
>>Russ
>>1.0 Basset Hound (Goofy)
>>1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Apollo)
>>1.0 Columbian Rainbow Boa (Odin)
>>1.0 Guyana Red-Tail Boa (Ares)
>>0.1 Pastel Salmon Boa (Minerva)
>>0.1 Rosy Boa (Athena)
>>1.1 Western Hognoses (???)
>>1.0 Albino Cal. Kingsnake (Zeus)
>>0.1 Dumeril (Puzzle)
>>1.3 leopard Geckos (the breeders)
>>Melbourne, Fl

n/p
-----
Scott

Reptiles
--------
1 Colombian Rainbow Boa (Rocky)
1.0 Ball Python (Sultan)
0.1 California Kingsnake (Leota)
1.0 Eastern Painted Turtle (Yugi)
0.1 Red/Gold Bearded Dragon* (Irwin, R.I.P.)

Other
-----
1.0 Betta Fish (Tyrone)
1.0 Hooded Rat* (Clubber, R.I.P.)
0.1 Albino Rat (Isis)

loved the post Jeff