Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've been thinking about the fact that our commonly captive bred species may be so interbred that we may not even really know what we're breeding any more - and if we DO know, its our little secret

So I was thinking we might want to do a couple things. First would be to run some genetics (dna assays) of different morphs, and compare them against locality subspecies. For example, how do goini, brooksi, etc compare (on the DNA level) to museum collection specimens from 50 years ago.

This would allow us to certify lineages. And this isn't too expensive anymore.

The second suggestion is that we adopt the use of new scientific names for the commonly captive bred species. Since we really don't know how badly polluted the gene pool of commonly bred species (especially morphs) we should consider the adoption of examples, like these:

Pantherophis guttata domesticus
Lampropeltis getulus domesticus
Pituophis catenifer domesticus

and for ANY hybrid:

Serpent domesticus domesticus

I'm interested in feedback - and I'll post this in the corn snake forum too to see what they think over there.

Joe

i like the idea, but there are to many hybrids to lump them in the same specie

and there are too many wild cought introduced every year to call them "domestic", now on the other hand there are a few hybrids that have gone that far.
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jake barney

my addiction:
1.1 ball pythons
0.2.1 corns
1.0 cal king
0.0.1 wc garter

I don't believe he is sugesting we lump them all together, rather give each Hybrid a designated Latin name to keep the confusion down. Basicly creating a new (recognized) species. I don't believe science would ever recognize this, nor do I believe breeders and collectors would ever agree. People seem to have a hard enough time agreeing on a "common or trade" name to specify between Hybrids. I agree it would clear a lot up if you can do it.
I also agree there is way to much wild blood introduced each year to classify any breed as domestic.
If I misunderstood the original post, I appologize. Please ignor the spelling, I hear a bed calling my name.
Thanx Argo
Anarchy Reptile Group

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If your going to play God you can at least be creative!!!!

I'm suggesting that any hybrid be given a single scientific name - all, for example, all hybrid snakes would be called Serpent domesticus. And that other snakes that are not locality specific or designated as pure lines be designated with species specific names. For instance all king snakes that are not wild caught with locality data be designated Lampropeltis domesticus, and be referred to as the Domestic king snake, for example.

Now we have people selling, for example, hypo brooksi - which in fact are not pure brooksi. And so many snakes have been sold that have dubious heritage that we really can't say for sure what they are. There is cal king blood in many goini breeding projects, and corn snake heritage is all mixed up.

Although sometimes wild blood is added to breeding projects, I would say the result would have to be considered "domestic" just to distinguish these confused bloodlines from locality specific wild populations.

joe

All right, I think I'm on the same page now and I agree. I think it is a decent idea and it would take a lot of time to acomplish. I don't really see how it would solve the same problem we have now, with "common or trade" names, which is the breeders themselves. If a person doesn't care enough to specify what they are doing now or is willing to lie about it now, then what would stop them from continuing to do so after this is put in place. Like I said, I think it is a fine idea and I would use it. But, I also care and I'm honest about what I do. It's something to think about.
Thanx Argo
Anarchy Reptile Group
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If your going to play God you can at least be creative!!!!

well with that ideology why not just call them all...SNAKES.
wild snakes = wildicus serpentus
and cb = what you said... serpentes domesticus
,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Wow, great topic and idea. I think herp people are pretty divided on this one. Many (most is seems now days) are all about the morphs (myself partially included) and really don't care about the conservation/preservation of wild genetics any more. I think it would be great to find more locale specific herps available and to know it truly is what people say it is. I don't think people realize or simply choose to look the other way in regards to the state of our planet and the fact that reptiles and amphibians are becoming more and more rare EVERY day. It may sound stupid but it breaks my heart to know that we're destroying so much of our planet that undiscovered species or species that we know so little about are just GONE. Unfortunately there are so many people that are just breeding herps to be breeding herps and don't look at or think about the bigger picture and what we could all do as a group to conserve these animals for future generations to enjoy (or the fact that if we DON'T start working together they simply will be gone). I'm not really sure what I was trying to say with all of this but I think it is a great idea and topic lol...

-Joe-
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0.1.0 Colombian Red-tailed Boa (100% Het. for albino)
0.0.3 Western Hognose Snakes
0.1.1 Plains Garter Snakes
1.0.0 Red-sided Garter Snake
1.2.0 Barred Tiger Salamanders
0.0.1 Red-eared Slider
0.0.1 Common Snapping Turtle