Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here are some pics of the pinstripe I got from you. She is really starting to put weight on for me. Hopefully if I keep using the Brad Boa method of feeding she will breed for me next year.


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You're never gonna get me.........I'm the Crimson Ghost

Brads a great guy......

I got a nice male Butter from him at Tinley & he's eating like a pig.
Once he sheds & I can get some good pics I'll post them.

Hey. what is the Brad Boa method of feeding?

Brad is one of the only guys I know that can get his snakes to get huge fast. What he told me is that if your snake will eat feed them. He said if they will eat every day feed them every day. There has been some debate whether or not it shortens the snakes life span, but I will tell you that my snakes are healthy and in my opinion look like a ball python is supposed to look like.
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You're never gonna get me.........I'm the Crimson Ghost

Hmmmmmm, if they'll eat, feed them! I think that's called: making hay, while the sun shines! That's a good idea w/Balls! You never know, when they're gonna flip that switch--- TO OFF!

Age matters more than size. Just because a year-old female is 1500g and obese, doesn't mean you should breed her. Would you breed a 12-year-old human? Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Young breeding runs the risk of health problems, egg-binding, and death. Unless you view your animals as disposable items, why would you take that risk?

Feeding constantly keeps the snake in a perpetual state of digestion without a break. It also pushes food through their digestive tract faster, which causes them to absorb less nutrients from their food. They aren't food processing factories -- it isn't healthy.

Would you want to feel extremely bloated (like after Thanksgiving dinner) 24-7-365? With no break? Doubtful.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

Age matters more than weight?... I think they go hand in hand...I dont think the Chrimson Ghost feeds everyday,even though it looked as that is what he is impling...As far as 12 year old humans breeding I think not.But as for Ball pythons breeding at 18 to 24 months its a case by case thing....I can tell you one thing that if a female IS developing and the male does have viable sperm....I say let them Breed..Just my thoughts.
Kevin Stoltz

Breeding a year-old 1500g ball python is no different than breeding a 12-year-old human if you take away all the social/mental aspects that come with human reproduction and look at it as strictly nature. They are both physically able to bear offspring, but are not fully mature yet and doing so poses a large health risk not only to the mother, but to the offspring. There is a risk of death by both breeding so young. Why risk it? I don't see my animals as disposable, I would rather be safe than sorry. What's another year?
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

There is a very big difference between a 12 year old human and an 18 month 1500 gram ball python.
One of the biggest health risks to a 12 year old girl as far as pregnancy is that due to her size she may have difficulty giving birth. However, this is only a complication. We do not get pregnant until we are able to give birth also.
With pythons if they can eat they will - it's instinct. If they are able to breed they will - again, instinct. However, if they become gravid it is because their bodies are ready for it - no matter the arbitrary size and number restrictions we place on them. Not all ball pythons are going to need to be 1500 grams to breed and not all of them are mature at 2100 grams. There is a size and age of maturity variation in them the same as with us.
I have heard of various colubrids becoming egg bound, but honestly have never once in 26 years of keeping various boas and pythons have I seen a ball python become egg bound.
Nature is smarter than our tinkering ways. Maternal incubation works just as well as artificial incubators. Live prey is okay - the snake is DESIGNED to kill. They will only become gravid when their bodies are ready. They will only eat when they are hungry. Rats are not always the best prey - however they are usually the best we can offer.
Hmmm...........any other myths to dispel here? These are animals people, not cars. Cut and dry tactics and rules do not apply here.

My opinion remains the same. Just because they can, does not mean they should.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

I'm sure that's what I'll be telling my daughter some day...

With ball pythons its not clear cut. For a breeder its matter of determining what the animal is capable of verses the risks and possible long term effects. For me its done on an animal by animal basis.

Justin
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J. Kobylka Reptiles

Warning: Snakes have been shown to cause death in laboratory rats.

I suppose the title of my post possibly made it look as though I was trying to be argumentative. That was not the case and I hope you did not take it that way.
I agree with you Jen - able to and should are not always the same thing.
I think my point was that people and snakes - or any wild, non-domesticated animal- are not the same thing. And I think this hobby could benefit if people were to view these animals as individuals. One breeder may do things this way or that and another can have a completely different viewpoint and still achieve similar results. I think every breeder would benefit even more so if they were to take each snakes individual behaviors and preferences into account when caring for them.

Good point!!!

I am sure there are a few studies of Ball Pythons in the wild, the probably have a better understanding of the metabolism, and feeding habits of Ball Pythons. Constrictors are oppurtunistic hunters, that probably have a feast of a season when the rains hit, and somewhat of a famine when the greens that feed the rats wither away. I would say, feed the snake what it wants to eat, you never know when its biological clock might say it is time to conserve energy and fast. I really have never seen an obese Ball Python.

Dave

Not all ball pythons fast. I only have one male that does -- everyone else that isn't a new purchase this year has eaten year-round for me. Not to say they won't fast later, because that's always possible, but I doubt it. I don't cool or do any temp drops, so they haven't shut down and gone into winter fasting mode. I feel that its better and healthier to feed them on a regular, moderated basis -- this way they don't overeat and then decide to stop and cut back out of nowhere.

My animals are all individuals and they are treated as such -- some have hides, some have deeper water cups because they drink more, some get African rats, some get solid black rats that I have to breed myself, some get one prey item every 5 days, some get 2-3 every 10 days. It's all based on what works for that animal -- but I still have my own standards and would not put any of them at risk by breeding too young, too small, or too often. It just isn't worth it.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

I agree... It doesn't matter if its a commonly accepted practice among breeders... Its not a natural feeding schedule and there have been MANY observations that point to premature fatality.. Of course a snake will eat when it can but that is the key phrase "when it can".. Ball pythons are designed to go for MONTHS without eating... I wonder why? Power feeding is done for one reason.... Monetary gain..

It's called overfeeding. Power feeding is when you get a snake to take one prey item naturally, and then when it is almost done with the first rat you put another in the snakes mouth and it has no chioce but to eat both.
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John Vandegrift

KEY TERMS:

1. Power feeding- The act of placing a pre-killed prey item in a snake's mouth as it is swallowing an item it already killed.

2. Over feeding- A non-existent fallicy created by animal rights activists who parrot feeling-based misinformation rather than fact-based experience.

KEY SUMMARY:

No research concerning the over-feeding of ball pythons has ever been done. People quoting that "I've seen it" are really saying "I don't agree with it, therefore I'm going to make a baseless claim". Feed you ball pythons as many prey items as they will naturally take!

KEY QUOTE:

"It's a good thing we have locked up all these ball pythons in captivity so they won't go around breeding and feeding themselves to death in the wild!"

Steve Harrison
J-ville, FL

KEY QUOTE:

"It's a good thing we have locked up all these ball pythons in captivity so they won't go around breeding and feeding themselves to death in the wild!"

Steve - I think you are my new hero! Of course you could always add "...and if we didn't take their eggs away how would they ever hatch?"

We need to save these poor snakes from themsevles, and us!

Another abusive breeder and feeder,

Steve Harrison
J-ville!

You know it, spend all your money on racks, thermostats, bedding, disinfectent, paper towels, rodent racks, rodent food, and rodents. Man they are being abused.
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You're never gonna get me.........I'm the Crimson Ghost

I agree 100%! Feed your animals. . ."A full reptile is a happy reptile."

"Another abusive breeder and feeder". . .17 years of experience with Ball Pythons(first three-years might not count). . .and yes I STILL have my first, full, and happy Ball Python! Oh and the poor girl is breeding herself to death between the large-jumbo rat snacks!

Promoting the "Feed Your Snake a Rat Day!" Sign up today!

peace,
Ian Daviss

"Live prey is okay - the snake is DESIGNED to kill."

in the wild the "live prey has a chance to get away from its predator.....

in a closed situation its way different, one of the shops i go to quiet often had a snake come in where the "live" prey ie rat was left in the 55 gallon tank with the boa... the boa struck and missed, second strike he grabbed the rat from behind and wrapped the rat.... the rat bit the snakes tail, the snake let go, the rat couldnt run away, bit the handler 3 times while she was trying to get the rat out, she dropped the rat back in the tank, the rat attacked the snake biting half its head off.

live prey might be ok..... but im sorry i love my snakes to much to see this happen to them..... took me months to get mine switched from live to prekilled to f/t....

Here we go with this "in the wild" crap again. Ball pythons are ambush predators. They wait for something to come by then bite, constrict, swallow. It's pretty much the same in captivity, they ambush the rat/mouse whether it be from in its hide box or from a vantage point. They are not scavengers that go around looking for dead food, and dead food is most certainly not waved around in their face.

well if the rat could bite half of the snakes head off, the rat was about 10 times too big and that just shows most pet stores shouldn't have snakes.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

the snake was brought in by an owner, the rat was the right size he bit the snake a few times before the girl got him out, she was bitten by the rat several times as well.
i know constrictora are ambush predators, thing is in a small enviroment it is a bit different....
at least that is my opinion, i do what is right for me and what works for me.

Well what was she doing while the snake was being bitten? Trying on new hosery?

Hey,

That may be the way you CHOOSE to go, but don't judge others by your feelings based on bad husbandry in a bad pet shop.

1. Prey item goes in
2. Prey item is eaten!
3. If prey item not eaten immediately, take out!

Simple!

Steve Harrison
J-ville

4. If prey item bites you....grab prey item by tail and smash against hard object!

Before Peta jumps on me, I am joking!
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4.40 normal BPs
1.0 pastel BP
1.0 yellow belly BP
1.0 het albino BP
1.0 het pied BP
1.1 albino BPs
1.1 sunglow/anery corns
0.0.1 sunbeam
0.1 66% het stripe red tail boa
0.0.2 Strawberry hermit crabs
1.0 parakeet
1.0 spoiled rotten dog (Diego)
a crap load of rats and mice

Hey,

I don't worry about PETA- prey item bites me, it gets thumped! (and then promptly fed)

Stevo

its awful funny now all of a sudden there are so many that feed live, i remember coming here and asking 2 years ago about what the difference was between feeding live and f/t....
at that point i was just getting into snakes again, and there were so many for feeding f/t, because of the fact that it does put the snake in danger....

i know each method works different for each person and you do what works for you, you gain knowledge by hearing from others what they might do differently than you, you might even try it it may or may not work for you, thats part of what makes this hobby interesting.

I couldnt agree more with you KTR. Jen, I think the one thing that everyone forgets is, when you purchase an animal your free to feed, breed, and use whatever method you choose. 12 YO children are completely irrelevant and a HORRIBLE comparison used here. The main difference between a 1500 gram female(which I breed and have ZERO problems doing) and a 12 YO child are laws and humanity, more importantly common sense. I read these threads and time in time out, the things that cause all the drama are lack of common sense and respect. How hard is it really? Heres a better example for ya, my neighbor goes and buys a car, I dont tell him how to drive it. Get it? Its a hobby. And last time I checked in the last 7-8 years Im yet to hear of an egg-bound Ball Python. If they are mature enough to copulate, develop follicles, etc. they are old enough to lay them with no ill affects. Another point Id like to make is if you have ever bought a CH baby then you well support "undersized" females. Very few females in the wild reach over 12-1300 grams when they breed...hmmmm The funniest thing is most people seldom tell the truth as far as how they do things. Just look at thier collections and explain how they get 12(sarcasm) new crosses from babies/morphs just produced the previous year. Common guys common sense....Have a good season everyone regardless of what size your breed your animals!!!
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As far as the feeding everyday comment I made, It was meant to be a lighthearted analogy. When Brad told me that it was meant in a humorous manner not to be taken seriously which I made the mistake of asuming people would take it in the same manner. So the next time somebody asks me how I am getting my snakes up to size, I will think twice about saying that I cork the snakes butt shut and pump them up with an air pump.
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You're never gonna get me.........I'm the Crimson Ghost

What would you consider mature? I am anxiously awaiting.

Brandon Osborne
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

I guess it would be 18 to make it legal if we are going to compare ball pythons to human women.
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You're never gonna get me.........I'm the Crimson Ghost

Jen, up until the early 1900's young girls routinely were married and having children as early as 12 and 13. This occured as far back as the middle ages and not until "society" put an age on metal development did anyone ever think it was abnormal for young teens to have families.

*disclaimer* I completely agree with society and anyone procreating with a 12 year old deserves to and needs to go to jail for a very long time.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

And before the 1900's, many more women died during childbirth because they weren't as advanced as we are now (technologically AND intellectually).
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

and not to mention the c-section, pre-natal vitamins, ultra-sound, neonatal intensive care units, and countless other medical advances we have today. You would be surprised at how many 12 and 13 year olds come into the hospital each and every day that are pregnant. I know of someone that at 45 became a great grandparent. and I guess is on track to be a great great grandparent by 60 since the entire family seems to be breeding as soon as they are able to, lol.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

OK, you made your point. I'll keep that in mind the next time I see some pre-teen knocked up. I really could care less what the rest of you do with your snakes, because that is your choice -- you paid for them. I'm just stating my opinion that I was taught by others that it is detrimental to overfeed females and breed them at a year old, so I won't risk that with my animals.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

you have a good point Jen, the problem is that everyone that has stated that "feeding more than what they would get in nature" cannot back that up with even one actual controlled study. I mean honestly how many people here have a bp that they 100% know is older than 15 years? If the average life expectancy is 15 years and the record is 40, was a snake that dies at 10 kept poorly or fed too much or bred to many times? Someone needs to actually take a few clutches and designate them for a controlled study so we can put this argument to rest. I would be an animal that is fed every 3 days for the first 2 years of it's life eats close to the same amount of food per lifetime than one that is fed every 7 days.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Also the oldest bp that we have is just over 11 years. For the first 7 years it was kept by my brother as a pet and due to trouble of finding mice/rats in very rural SC was fed only once per month on average and at best every 2 weeks. It is now 2400g and has not produced for us for the last 3 years despite many full lock-ups. However, we had quite a few 18 month old 1300-1500g females go for us this year. Draw your own conclusions.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I never said anything about how they eat in nature compared to how they eat in captivity. My opinions are based on what I was taught and a bit of common sense in that any animal that eats a LOT and does nothing but lay around all day are bound to become obese. Why stuff them full of food and make them that way? I don't see the reason to rush things.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

again I ask, please show me a pic of an obese bp from anywhere on the net (when I say obese, not one that just had a large meal and scale seperation, but one that has full body scale seperation with obvious fat deposits which in most snakes develop in the last 1/3 of the snake). Every bp that we have had that we tried to "force" to grow quicker than it wanted went off-feed when it started to look fat. This is what they would do in nature. we have a few females that were 1000g at less than a year and by their choice at almost 2 years are still not 1200g. We now feed small meals (the largest rat we feed bps might weigh 150g at most and that is for very large breeder females) 5 days between feedings and since going to this method have not had one animal go off-feed (but we are still waiting on a couple to go back on feed from when we were feeding large meals).
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

You really need to stop Reading so much BULLSnot!
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http://www.jasballpythons.com./

Jas, I am glad I had a rain day today. LOL

nice pics Buddy.....I love them phat little sausages...
Kevin Stoltz

Please please please don't do this to your animal! I am sure you mean well, but doing this takes advantage of a survival response in the snake that is very hard on it, but nescessary in the wild.

In the wild, when a python has the opportunity to eat constantly, it is a sign that there is an over-abundance of food. The animals instinct is to eat all it can. The reason for this is that for the moment the snake is sacrificing many essential vitamins and nutrients for the time being so it can pack on as much fat stores as possible. (When the food passes through the digestive system this quickly, all that can be absorbed is fat and protien) The reason for this is that in nature, if there is huge amounts of the snakes primary food source, say, mice, then a famine will soon follow. The mice will eat all their food resources, and thier numbers will then drastically drop, creating a food shortage for the snake as well. The last couple of meals the snake ate have been allowed to digest more slowly, and therefore replace some of the lost nutrients, and the fat supply has been built for the lean months, or even years, ahead.

When we take advantage of this amazing natural response in captivity, we do more harm than good. The snake will become obese, and an inexperienced keeper won't even be able to tell! This is because snakes are efficient! They are intentionally putting on the fat and their bodies pack it on more compactly than normal, so the result is a big, "solid" snake. In reality, they are obese AND lacking many essential nutrients. That is why it shortens their life. Not to mention it creates an unhealthy, uncomfortable snake who has a weakened immune system.

I hope this helps you and others understand why this is such a terrible idea. As you can see, this is not simply my opinion. It is the way nature works, and by power feeding we take advantage of those natural instincts and do more harm than good.

As keepers of wild animals it is our responsibility to provide for them the best possible environment.

Take care of yourself, and your charges!!!
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James.....
"Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought the beast back."

lmfao!! Another one...
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http://www.jasballpythons.com./

I go with jas on this one. I love my '07 500g babies. They rock. I am curious to know if they will breed next year. I am hoping to get them to 1300-1500g by next September. I have 4 '06 females that were 500g when I got them in June, and are pushing 1000g each. That is gaining about 100g a month. I feed everything one day, and three days following that, I offer again.
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Happy Herping,
Jody Barnes
Royal Kreationz

Dude, you yourself just came on this forum and admit you don't know much- now YOU are giving advice?

Please,

Stevo

best you learn to read a little better. I have little experience with morphs and breeding. I have been dealing with problem snakes for years, and do have knowledge gained through experience to share. Just because I am new to this forum, and you haven't heard my screen name before, doesn't mean I don't know what I am talking about.
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James.....
"Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought the beast back."

n/p

Steve, read the origional topic. It wasn't breeding issues, it was about feeding. try to put your ego in check for a moment, and realise, just because you have been on here, and people know who you are, doesn't mean I am inexperienced.
I have first hand experience that I can share with others, and hope they would do the same, and that includes you, but I just don't get how you can be so closed minded. Its as if you decided that you would show that this "newbie" is no match for you! LMAO. If you really want a competition instead of a conversation, so be it. I will concede, and move on. I am here to both learn, and to teach what I know.
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James.....
"Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought the beast back."

I found it in my snakeroom- Just kidding!

Breeding or feeding- the only thing I am saying is just speak from experience, and don't condem people for doing things differently- especially when they have experienced success and there is no data to back up all these "don't feed too much" and "don't breed too young" naysayers.

We're all here to learn (me inlcuded), but there are a lot of "myths" out there.

Steve

Thanks for having my back. I'm not saying my way is right. I am just saying I have had more success by feeding my animals 3 times a week.
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You're never gonna get me.........I'm the Crimson Ghost

for kids too? I mean if they always have food in their mouths then they wouldnt be crying or asking stupi questions, right? Both pythons are suppossed to look like over stuffed fat sausages? Who knew....
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Greg Power
B.O.A. Inc
boainc@gmail.com

John, and Scott, thanks for the comments. I offer food two times a week. I have a few animals and I never had a female get egg bound and die. I have been in the hobby for a few years and never had a problem with the way I feed or the offspring from my adults, this is what works good for me.
I hope 08 is good for everyone. Thanks Brad Boa

Offering twice a week is very different than the "feed them every chance you get, even if it's every day" style he presented.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

Jen, In his defense he is just getting started in this hobby. The animal he was trying to feed was not taking any meals for him, so I suggested offering food a few times a week,NOT TO FEED THE SAME ANIMAL A FOOD ITEM EVERYDAY!! Because that is what I do when I have a baby that wont take a meal, you may not do this but this is what works for me. I appreciate the comments about feeding and breeding your kids that was hilarious. I think everybody here has helped John with his husbandry practices.
Keep up the good work John, she is looking good!!!!
Take care, Brad Boa Ps thanks for the kind words Craig.

Hey Brad I am sorry to have caused this much grief for you and should have thought twice about posting anything but pics in this forum. You know that I don't feed my snakes everyday. You know I can't affoard that lol. If I do feed my snakes more than twice a week, it is because they are eating really small food items. As far as just being in it for the money, that is the farthest thing from the truth. On the other hand if you don't come from money or you don't have a huge diposible income, yes you don't want to lose a year because you want to get a return on your investment. Brad Boa takes great pride in his animals and his customer service goes above and beyond what you would expect from a breeder. His animals are healthy, clean, and are eating like pigs from the get go. Anyone who has purchased an animal from him knows this and is more than 110% satisfied with the purchase.
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You're never gonna get me.........I'm the Crimson Ghost

Rock on Bro! Sorry I missed all the fun!!
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http://www.jasballpythons.com./

I purchased an 2006 baby mojave from from someone. The snake should have weighed at least 200 grams for how long this person had this snake. When I recieved him he only weighed 72 grams. So this person pretty much was feeding this animal just to keep it alive to sell it. Is it better to feed a little more or just enough to sustain an animal until you can make a profit.
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You're never gonna get me.........I'm the Crimson Ghost

don't worry about profit. make sure the animal is healthy. then sell it if that is your intention. i don't thnk mojaves have a huge profit margin these days anyways.
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Happy Herping,
Jody Barnes
Royal Kreationz

That seems to be common these days and is really unfortunate. Babies have high metabolisms and need to be fed -- keeping it at the bare minimum is basically starving it and preventing its natural growth.

I've found that people do this mostly when an animal is on hold -- once they get a down payment for the animal, they stop feeding it altogether or only give it one tiny meal every couple weeks to keep it going. I think their mindset is that it's going to be sold, why plug more money into it and cut down on the profit they'll make. The evidence comes that when the animal gets paid off and finally arrives, it is significantly smaller than when it was first put on hold or hasn't grown at all.

He should bounce back for you if you feed him regularly and steadily. Every 5 days until he gets up to a normal weight, then every 7 days would do well without shocking his system.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

People dont quarntine there new purchases..Thats what I find alarming...

Come on now, does anybody think Brad was trying to get this guy to feed everyday?? Of course not, I have been to Brad's place numerous times and I am amazed by his husbandry practices, I can guarantee he has THE cleanest facillity of anyone that owns more than 100 animals, and that he takes extreme pride in the health of his animals. His animals are all very healthy weights, not obese. I see no problems in breeding 2000 gram 19 month old females either. Craig Kade

There was another ball python guy who fed hid animals everyday... I thinkh his name was Andre.... What ever happened to that guy? Qoute "To get my animals big real fast, I feed them small mice daily.. It keeps them hungry and growing"

Who in this thread is feeding their balls everyday? I think everybody here has taken a inside joke to heart, maybe John shouldn't of been joking around but he probably thought a few people could figure out he was joking when he said "Brad Boa told him to feed his snake everyday" I mean come on think about that you guys are to much!!! I think we can all come to the conclusion that Powerfeeding I mean overfeeding is unhealthy for your snake I hope this helps out the ball python gurus on this site. Good Luck Brad Boa

Brad, I couldn't find the sarcasm in "Brad told me if my snake will eat, feed it.. If it will eat everyday, feed it everyday.."... If I missed the punchline, I'm sorry.. I LMAO when I first read what Andre (the pastel guy) had type.. It would not have surprised me if there were quite a few people who adopted his (everyday) feeding method since he was a "big timer".. This was the first time I saw this feeding regimen since then and I immediately thought of Andre (the guy who was all about the money and sold out before the bottom of the market completely dropped out). Again, I'm sorry if I missed the sarcasm.

Thats cool man. Take care Brad

Brad, If a snake wants it.. I'll feed them every day! Anyone that says that is wrong. Is a Dumbarse!!!
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http://www.jasballpythons.com./

Anyone who agrees doesn't want their snake to live a full life but they sure will make that person a lot of money! What's the name for that?

Someone please name a scientific study in which over-feeding bp's has caused a drop in life expectancy. These animals can live to be 40 in captivity but what is the average life expectancy in the wild and in racks? Someone post a pic of an adult obese bp. Not one that has a large meal in it, but one that has fat deposits on it's lower 1/3 of it's body. I can show you pics of boas and burms that are posted all over this site but I have never seen an obese adult bp. All the gurus everywhere like to throw out theories and opinions but with zero scientific knowledge.

Here's some facts that I've observed. Feeding animals larger prey items tends to throw them off-feed. Smaller prey items every 3-5 days almost never elicits the quit feeding responce. A snake that is starting to look fat or feeding too much will quit eating, it's natures check and balance. Snakes that are kept warmer tend to digest faster and hence grow faster. Young snakes kept too warm don't eat great.

Hope this helps some, or if not, hope it doesn't get too many people mad.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

A smart man with money and Morphs! What you got?
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http://www.jasballpythons.com./

Wrong on so many different levels..

I just want to state my standpoint on this WAY out of control thread. I am aware of Brad Boa, and he is a reputable keeper! I also did not mean to imply Crimsonghost was going to feed every day!!!
I only wanted to adress that some people DO try that, only because they are misinformed.
Simply put, I just wanted to tell anyone who may have MISUNDERSTOOD that feeding that way is a bad thing, and to share some interesting info about why it is possible to do it.

If I came across wrong, or "know-it-all" I apologise.
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James.....
"Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought the beast back."

If a female year old, 1200 gram ball python is in a hole in ghana, and a male comes in.....and she gets bred by him and lays eggs....who is to say it should not happen? It happens cause it does....if a female has follicles to procreate she is ready....might lay one or two eggs...if that is all she is capable of but if she isnt, then she wouldnt have.....there are tons of misconceptions with balls as their is with monitors.
The MAIN reason I always went by was if a female isonly big enough to lay one or three eggs, then why breed her , wait the extra year and get double.....up to the individual. If she goes it is because she was capable of and would have in the wild anyways....

How many hatchling females in the wild eat enough in a year to reach 1200 grams?? My uneducated guess is very few, IF any.. They don't have the luxury of an unlimited food supply.

CrimsonGhost: awesome pics of your pinstripe!!

...and then for everyone:

...In case this thread-from-hell hasn't already proven it to you, sarcasm doesn't come out or make sense in black-and-white script on a screen.

There is no tone to catch, and worse, the people who misunderstand your sarcasm and get upset enough to post about it should be the least of your worries! I don't fault Jen (and others) for getting upset at what was posted: think of the uneducated newbie who might be reading your comments, taking them literally, and not posting anything!!

That said, the point has been hashed and re-hashed around enough that I think we all get it; what set everyone off was not meant to be taken literally.

ya know that tune, "why can't we be friends, why can't we be friends...?" tunes don't come through in black-and-white script on a screen either

Cheers all!
~Rebecca
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1.0.0 Dumeril's Boa '04
1.1.1 Ball Pythons
[1.0.0 '05 Orange Hypo (Specter)]
[0.1.0 '05 Het Orange Hypo (Sylvia)]
[0.0.1 '03 Normal (Sue)]
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40lb darling lap dogs:Brandy&Mara)

"There is no tone to catch, and worse, the people who misunderstand your sarcasm and get upset enough to post about it should be the least of your worries! I don't fault Jen (and others) for getting upset at what was posted: think of the uneducated newbie who might be reading your comments, taking them literally, and not posting anything!!"

Exactly. I read "feed every day", and posted my opinion. I never bashed Brad, I never said anything negative about him or his practices. I simply said to the OP that it isn't a good idea to feed a snake every day so that you can get it up to size really fast and then breed it really young. That just seems way too risky for me, and in conversations with other people, they all feel the same. I never claimed to be an expert, never claimed that my thoughts were infallible, never said anything about what they "do in nature" or anything being "natural", and I stated multiple times that it was my personal opinion and what I practiced for my own animals. What you do with yours is your business, but I offered my opinion with hopes that people wouldn't go out stuffing their snakes full of food.

I don't care if I have 3 years of experience vs. some of your 20. That does not make my OPINIONS anything different -- I still have a lot to learn in this hobby and I try to pass on what I already know and have learned from experienced people. If that's a crime, well, then I stand convincted. If you feel the need to rip me apart for this, then go ahead if you makes you feel good about yourself. It's the internet -- not reality. I'm not one of those new hobbyists that are out to make a buck and then move on in a year or two. I do this because I enjoy the animals and have wanted to keep them since I was a kid. Now I have the chance. Profiting is the last thing I could care about.

Oh, and FYI -- I love my clown, thanks.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

WHO FEEDS THIER SNAKES EVERYDAY!!! I just couldnt help that one LOL!!! One good thing came out of this the newbies on this forum all know not to FEED THEIR SNAKES EVERYDAY!!!!!! I Was thinking about marketing my Brad Boa feeding method This is another joke LOL LOL LOL LOL.. I HOPE EVERYONE ENJOYED THIS TOPIC.
Good Luck Brad