Reptile & Amphibian Forums

not to dismiss anyones theories or opinions, but come on, we're not talking animal abuse here. if a ball python wants to eat, feed it. i love when people parrot all kinds of secondhand conventional wisdom, to the death. lots of cw is merely excuses people make when they aren't doing such a good job taking care of their animals. i'm in the tree business, and i've heard for years the same claims that trees don't do well if you fertilize regularly. i assure you that is false. a big fat female ball can lay more eggs and recover faster than a smaller, less robust one, with less danger of complications. and someone remarked about little skinny 70 gram babies, every snake i hatch i'm going to push as hard as i can to get up over 150 grams or so, because at that size they become pretty bulletproof. and you can sell them with confidence. i don't know brad boa, but i looked at his pins in chicago last year, and they were nice big, robust snakes. i'd much rather buy one like that than some scrawny, wormy little thing. and if they die at 25 years old instead of 30, i'll deal with it. peace to all, have a great breeding season, kurt d.

n/p

ck

Too often we see new people come wondering into this hobby and start asking all the newbie questions and when they get all the answers they become the resident experts. These people forget how they were just asking all the questions they are now experts on only a few months back. I am sure Brad has more breeding and feeding experience than the people who are critisizing him below. I would sure rather have a plump fat little baby over some skinny dehydrated animal anyday.

For all the forum experts maybe spend a few years getting your own experience before you come here and give advice to people who have actually been breeding for years.

they are all correct

one year I fed hamsters and made monster balls and had 12 eggs each.....then they started alying half duds due to being too fat?......yet were fed less....friend fed his large rats and got no eggs.......yet smaller young 2 year olds laid 6 to 8 eggs each.........I fed mice to alot of balls and at 3 years they all laied......6 to 10 eggs for first time......and fat girls didn't do squat again.......yet other people feed the large rats and get alot of eggs...

genetics.........heat.......timing.......and total amount of food a year.........do they eat the fat rats all year or just for 7 months?.....

all correct and all wrong at the same time...

you can tell rat eaters though.......you really can......till they hit 3 years old?......

.......don't matter.......I just breed twice as many girls to even it all out.....and still get too many eggs......

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......and noone wants the big girls anymore....wow..................
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At least you speak from experience!! lol.

just making the point that they are all right and wrong.....

....

Rene......are you THEE Rene???........(I don't read names all the time)......Hi.long time?.......(actually if it is YOU maybe you been here all the time?.....anyways....Hi...have fun.......

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......and noone wants the big girls anymore....wow..................
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It is me, still lurking and boiling..

You guys rock!!!

I speak from experience as well and it is MY EXPERIENCE that big fat over fed snakes dont breed or lay as well. Thats one of the many things I have learned in the past 16 years. If you dont like my post dont read them!
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Greg Power
B.O.A. Inc
boainc@gmail.com

I will teach you my relaxation technique tomorrow! I have been using it for two months now so I am an "expert" at it.......

>>I will teach you my relaxation technique tomorrow! I have been using it for two months now so I am an "expert" at it.......

Serenity now!...SERENITY NOW!!

o mani padme om
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Charles Glaspie

maybe...hell........don't read the names all the time and don't remember you in here alot.......

Hi.....

......boiling?.......I don't get that part?.....

.......
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......and noone wants the big girls anymore....wow..................
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my experience??? I've owned hundreds of boids.. Produced dozens of litters.. They may not be the "morphy" stuff that you all like but they all act and breed the same.. Snakes are NOT meant to be fed everyday.. They aren't built for it. Plain and simple.. Living things with different metabolisms require different feeding schedules. Animals that are built to go without food for 6 months without a problem are not built to eat everyday.. Yes, they will grow.. Yes, they will breed.. Well, I guess that's the only plans for you people and your animals.. There's definitely a new crowd forming in this business.. Though it was done in private, it would never have been publicly accepted a short few years back.. I would also love to see the response on the boa forum if daily feedings were advised.. Aside from breeding, what happens to the 200lb 12yr old kid??

" I've owned hundreds of boids.. Produced dozens of litters.." Brad did far beyond that last year alone and I have bought many animals from him and have been very satisfied. Craig Kade

You've certainly done a lot in your 3 years of keeping snakes. The other day you posted.....

I remember seeing my first YB ad.. I started with snakes in 2004.. $20,000.00.... For the way it looked, I couldn't understand the insane price.. I obviously didn't know it made a white'ish snake..

Haven't I? Its really an accomplishment when you think about it... I guess it doesn't deserve much credit since I don't have all that morphy stuff... Call me crazy but there's somethin about them normals that satisfies me.. Maybe one day ill have morphy stuff like all these smart guys with money.

Sorry you forgot to read the posts below. The intention of the feeding everyday comment was called "sarcasm".

Sorry you missed it!

Stevo

If so then no I wasn't questioning your experience but if you took offense to my post you must have issues? I didn't even notice that you were involved in the thread below until I had to go back and see what got you all upset.

WHO FEEDS EVERYDAY ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

We have heard from experienced reptile keepers. This is my favorite. Now this isn't quoted word for word but it went something like this...

Someone asked how to calm their ball python down because it was nippy. The response by some who still posts here was: Handle your ball after feeding. They are full of food and less likely to want to strike and bite due to being full of food. They will also get used to being handled more.

This from someone who gives advice freely on the forum.

now that's funny, I think I actually LOL'd.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

Thats what i was thinking most of those People that Questioned the way Brad feeds or told someone how to feed,Where Newbies that read a book and asked some Questions and whaa laaa you have an Expert Ball Python Breeder.... Kinda like breeding clowns you don't really like,but you'll do it anyway..LOL... Hands on for all of the whinniers is what i would like to tell them .. Come back in ten more years and tell us how its done again....

Van
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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters

With all of the "know it alls" on here is is no wonder none of the experts offer advice here......

Hope you're not implying that it was me, because it sure the hell wasn't.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

Rene, you have got to be kidding me!!LOL

Tom Baker can tell you the story, it's what made him dislike me.. lmao..

Way to misunderstand a post - then misquote and misconstrue it and then harp on it - what's it been a year later, probably more?!?!?!?! Am I really that interesting to you - if so you really need to get a life?!?

By the way - the advise was given to an experienced keeper that was looking for suggestions for a nippy baby - and knew full well not to handle on a full stomach. The actual advise was that babies especially hungry babies can be nippy if you handle them after they've fed (meaning a day or two later) they tend to be more docile. If you were a participant on the forum instead of someone that just comes here to bash people you likely would have been able to understand that.

Now scuttle back to your private little forum and spend the next three days discussing what losers there are on the KS forum and how great you all are - like you always do. Perhaps you can pat yourselves on the back for (in your mind) successfully attacking Jen - too bad she stood her ground quite well - I don't think she is going anywhere.

Now I have to go back and help my friends evacuate their home - so feel free to take this opportunity to bash away as I won't be defending myself. Or have some class and call it a day.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Insert Silly Quote Here

Good Luck Tosha...Be safe.

I totaly agree with you. Thats what I was trying to point out about the "Brad Boa method of feeding". I have purchased three animals from Brad and they are all eating like pigs and doing great. Everybody has their own husbandry practices, but I see nothing wrong with feeding more than it tells you to in a book.
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You're never gonna get me.........I'm the Crimson Ghost

There is a book? LMAO!!
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http://www.jasballpythons.com./

Didn't you Know? It was written by Jen. lol
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You're never gonna get me.........I'm the Crimson Ghost

Nope, I just have my own opinions based on how I've watched my animals grow and behave over the past 3 1/2 years, as well as the information that was given to me by people have been doing this a lot longer than I have.

I'll repeat what Greg said...if you don't like my posts, don't read them.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

Can't we all get along...lets all get ride of these soap boxes...Its a hobby for goodness sake.....isnt it?..I do love Hot Dogs and sausage....
Kevin S

an apology. You have a whole 3 1/2 years of experience. Sorry I didn't realize this.

Well yea Rene he just got his females up to size they know so much at that time,,,hahahaha
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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters

Wow, I think our combined experience together Rene is more than she is old? The people who have the years of experience dont normally give it on here because the ones that "know it all" will not accept any other possibility........

I have had snakes for 27 years and been breeding them for 18 years and I still dont claim to "know it all"! We all do what works for us be it right or wrong but it works.......

Apology for what? I could care less.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

that you missed my post before it was deleted. If so it is posted where it can't be deleted.

Actually I did, because I was at work when you posted it. When I got home and clicked the link in the e-mail, it was gone. I know where you posted, and I don't care. You and your cronies can have all the fun you want bashing me on that forum -- knock yourselves out. Obviously you feel the need to do that to make yourselves feel better than other people or like you're better than me. This is the internet...like I really care.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

LMAO
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You're never gonna get me.........I'm the Crimson Ghost

These are the facts and you can love me or hate me for it but I'm tired of all of the b.s. advice given out by people who have been keeping these snakes for a grand total of ten months. These are the same people who were asking the most basic husbandry questions just six months ago and are now telling experienced breeders what they are doing wrong. After more than two decades I think I'm qualified to give a little advice.

All pythons are designed to kill their prey.
Is there anything wrong with frozen prey? No.
Can a live rat injure a python? Yes.
Is a ball python designed to eat a live medium to large sized rat? No. Their nature prey is much smaller.
So what should a person feed a ball python? Smaller prey items than the industry suggests.
Why? It is more natural.
How often? In the wild they feed when they are able. They also go through seasonal periods where prey items are scarce. They naturally do not eat as much during these times. However, they will still eat if given the opportunity. Nature dictates that their feeding response is naturally lowered during these periods as a survival technique.
So a keeper feeding smaller prey items more often is not being irresponsible in caring for the python's health if they are also giving that python an annual season of fasting. This fast does not have to be a complete lack of food rather reducing the offered food to 1/4 - 1/2 the normal schedule should suffice.

This hobby has turned itself into an industry in so many ways that most of today's breeders have lost touch with the variability of the animals they keep. Everyone is spewing everyone else's advice without any thought. Why? Because it is what is considered the most effective, streamlined method to obtain the desired result. Even you who claim not to be in this for the money do this.

-Feed prey the size of largest part of the python every 7-10 days.
-Provide "x" amount of space. Have temperatures set to "x" degrees.
-Males - able to breed at 600-900 grams or 12-18 months of age.
-Females - breed at 1200-1500 grams and 3 years of age.
-Maternal incubation is ok if you are really daring because the female has no clue how to do this on her own.
-Incubate in this exact manner.
-Control every little aspect of the python's life.

Do these things sound familiar? They are formulas that a very select few have used and passed on. Do they work? Yes, but there is no change or growth in the hobby anymore. The only variable from season to season is which new morph will pop up. New techniques are shunned because people are scared to lose a clutch and thus some money.

Try new things people you may find they work better than the status quo.

>>Try new things people you may find they work better than the status quo.

Exactly!...Part of the problem with the refried advice must stem from some new hobbyists assuming that everything has been figured out already.It's a forgivable enough oversight,but to argue ones point with none of their own previous experience?...yea,that baffles me as well.
To many newbies trying to be a business way to early?..most likely....I myself have a few new ideas,but why even bother to share them?So i can get into an argument with those that are so cookie-cuttered out that they would rather slam someone than think for themselves?...nah,why bother.
So who the hell am I anyway?...Just a guy that read everything twice,took everything into consideration.Then tried a few newer ideas.

Good luck everybody,whether your a hater or not,gl.

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Charles Glaspie

There are plenty that have more experience than others. I agree that new ideas in husbandry and breeding can only improve the process. Would it be more admirable to produce the next money maker morph and name it after yourself or be known for developing a process to double clutch or positive ID of hets ?
Breed what you love , enjoy the hobby and work hard and success will follow.

Kick butt post its 610 am and I think I need a drink all ready after reading this. A few people took an inside joke of FEEDING EVERY DAY TO HEART, thank god they are all experts LOL. Take care Brad

LMAO....KTR

I love that post.....

It's ok to feed FROZEN rats to your snake....

It's NOT ok to feed larger rats because it's not natural....they eat smaller prey.

SO it's natural to feed a ball python small frozen rats....thanks for all your help. LMAO
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blackrockcaptives.com

lol - I guess I was a little caught up in the moment. It should have said Frozen/Thawed for any of you who would actually wonder about this.
Then again, I think most people understood.

actually I think the point he was trying to make that there isn't a frozen thawed distribution center in africa for all these bp's to NATURALLY obtain their rats from. Everyone wants to throw around the phrase "it's not natural" to do this or that but they keep their snakes on newspaper in a rack.

PEOPLE THIS ISN'T NATURE. OUR BP'S DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT COBRAS EATING THEM, BIRDS EATING THEM OR NATIVES SKINNING THEM OR CATCHING FOR THE PET TRADE. I'M SURE EVEN THE MOST HEAVILY FED BP IN CAPTIVITY LIVES LONGER AND PRODUCES MORE OFFSPRING THAN THE AVERAGE BP IN THE WILD DOES. IF YOU DISAGREE, GIVE SOME EVIDENCE THAT IS FACT NOT WHAT JOE BLOW THAT YOU BOUGHT FROM TOLD YOU AND WHAT YOU HAVE READ FROM OTHER PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

posting on this thread now!!! I thought this was a great post too. Really made me think. I hope people can see what you are getting at, without getting all argumentative again. I got bashed pretty good for posting, cuz I'm a "newbie". (noone bothered to ask what kind of experience I have, just saw a new name.)
I decided to learn about BPs in stages. I have spent the last twelve years with a LOT of different snakes (all BPS), learning as I went. I had no "mentor" since I was not breeding. I discovered first what an amazing animal this was. Shortly after, I discovered how many mistreated/unwanted animals there are.
Hence the rescue thing. I have decided now finally to breed.
point is, that was the kind of post I hope to see when I ask for advice as a newbie. something challenging.
thanks for makin me think!
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James.....
"Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought the beast back."

only kidding!

thanks for all the advice in the past, it helps loads if you're a "newbie" that can't afford the books n stuff.

...it backs up info you read elsewhere on the webby web

Willzy

excellent post... couldn't have said it better
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The Crawl Space