Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I took some new photos of my 2008 breeder line-up before they take their winter nap. These three will hopefully breed for the first time next season. They are all VR lineage.

By the way, if anyone here has bookmarked my website in the past, please clink on the link below and re-save it as a new bookmark. Due to a hard drive failure last month, I had to re-create my website from scratch, and the home page address is slightly different. You should now see a "Gallery" and "Feedback and Comments" section at the bottom of the home page, so if you don't it is still the old one.

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Maria

Alaska Reptiles

"Life is like a box of thayeri eggs..."

wow, those are really nice.Looks like the second one has some Greeri in it?
You take very nice pics.

Shannon

>>Looks like the second one has some Greeri in it?

You think Tim put a little greeri in his VR line?
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

it would extend to:

Vivid, Applegate, Dan Vermilia, Chris Baubel, Jonel Lopez (VR, Applegate), Mike Bodner (VR, Logan, Luis Torres).

that said I don't see greeri. IMHO greens kind of do but I think that thayeri can tend to look like other forms just by virtue of their variable nature

here's one of my greens

I don't think Shannons comment was an acusation but an observation. Some thayeri do resemble other forms. to me the one posted didn't but some of my more line bred types kind of do.

yes, I wasn't accusing her or tim or anybody.Just has that look.I wasn't even commenting on the green cause I have seen some really green thayeri in my day.

Just kinda has that greeri look thats all.

L8r

Looks nothing but Thayeri to me.......mike

Now the ones being advertised KS classifieds today by GVH are throwing up all kinds of red flags. mike

Are you talking about the albinos?

Lance

No, the ad is dated today oct. 24th...and says "Neuvo Leon Kings Various Morphs 2007" In the kingsnakes and milksnakes catagory on Kingsnake.com classifieds...mike

>>No, the ad is dated today oct. 24th...and says "Neuvo Leon Kings Various Morphs 2007" In the kingsnakes and milksnakes category on Kingsnake.com classifieds...mike

Well there was an add from 10/23 with "albino thayeri" for $400 each with no mention of any hybridization, and that not only had a red flag but flashing lights and a siren. I would go out on a limb and say that these are likely an F2 or F3 down the road from an albino ruthveni x thayeri pairing.

To me after representing one thing that is out of bounds puts the whole breeding stock in question. Now that can come from one of two issues, either they do not know and believe it to be true or they hope you never figure it out. Most of the time I am sure that "not know" is the problem.

They're "pastel" kings. F1's I believe. The guy said they're ruthvens crosses so I assume F1.

Chris

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"All the fancy names in the world will be of no help if you do not know the difference between chocolate pudding and pig poop." -Frank Retes

I have had several "thayeri" for a number on years. Most I was told were pure thayeri and am finding that was not the case. One of them, the dealer told me that their breeding adults all came from VR, but I showed a pic to Tim and he said it looked like a hybrid and had no record of the dealer in question. I bought an adult pair (one a leonis the other a milksnake phase) from someone else who insisted they were pure, but much of their off spring looked exactly like mex-mex.

I have been told most "Thayeri" out there are hybrids. For the past couple years I have been trying to buy new thayeri from nothing but well known reputable dealers. I just recently got one from Mike (Chriscolubrids) But other than that, how do you know for sure? Some obviously look like it, but others are difficult. And even in this forum people seem to think that some look like hybrids when others say that it is not the case. Any thoughts?

I am not sure if there are as many hybrids as some people believe, but I have no doubt that they are out there with the keeper honestly believing that they are pure.

The big issue is that once you get one animal that is hybridized breeding as pure it starts to compound the problem as things go from F1 to F2 and so on, now the % that is not thayeri may go down with each breeding... But you can never get back to 100% thayeri in a hybrid lineage.

It would be nice to have a means to go down and collect new breeding stock.... That stuff you could trust

Lance

I don't see any solid evidence of hybridization. I had and produced several green thayeri from Lloyd Lemke stock in the 90's.
The bow-ties are anti-greeri in my opinion as greeri tend to be the opposite, as in diamonds.
I have seen pics of wild greeri and also produced several greeri that had reduced pattern on the sides, then again the type locality speciemen of thayeri is represented by a black and white drawing that clearly depicts patternless sides.
I also have a picture which, unfortunately due to copyright I can't post, but it is a wild caught thayeri from Puente El Chorro and it has bow ties almost exactly like that one, except little black bars go down the sides. Plus it's greenish-gray.
Personally I would call them generic thayeri and they are probably as pure as any non locality thayeri out there.

>>then again the type locality speciemen of thayeri is represented by a black and white drawing that clearly depicts patternless sides.

very small correction. That's the type of "leonis". I have a photos and scale counts of that animal I can post later. The type of thayeri is MSP looking animal from Miquihuana. I also have photos and scale counts for that one.
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

Ah yes Coronella leonis before it was thayeri. If the photo is the black and white drawing then I already have that. I don't have the milksnake phase photo and would very much like to see it.