Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I just went to breakfast with my lovely wife. Of course as usual, there were several snakes on the way. Its cold and windy as heck, perfect for snakes moving.

I yelled, look a snake, and my lovely wife said, no its a board. I gave her a look(she knows better)

Low and behold, it appeared to be a hybrid. A famous hybrid too. You know, the cross between a rattlesnake and a Bullsnake(gopher). I am not lying either. It was short and stocky, It had a short thick tail and a rattle. But it was a gophersnake looking.

So I got out, that thing was crawling across the road and I was going to let it(i do not mess with them unless I have too). Well it gave me a look and it rattled its tail. DANG WHERES MY CAMERA.

Ok, it appeared to be a very fat healthy gophersnake, with the tip of its tail cut off. It had several sheds stuck on the nub of its cut off tail. And they indeed rattled when it vibrated its tail. WHERES MY DANG CAMERA.

Well, I am very prejudiced, as those two snakes do not cross. But an average citizen would without question call that a hybrid. Hmmmmmmmmm is this how wifestails get started?

Oh and earlier this year, I saw another wifestail starter with diamondbacks. Hunters are always getting chased by rattlesnakes, but us snakey fellas only do the chasing and never get chased. So we wonder, WHAT ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT. So I was out at my gila site. And low and another behold, I got bushwacked by a large 5 1/2 foot WDB. The dang thing without question chased me and for a good distance too.

But me being me(not for everyone) I knew right away what the heck was going on and why. The snake lunged at me, over and over, but, it had its head back and did not open its mouth or strike. IT lunged over and over. Say a good 25 feet worth. But, once it got close, it finally smelled me and understood, I was not a cow or other bluffable mammal. So it went directly into a retreat mode. You all know what that is, The striking coil and backwards winding until it reached its hole.

Well, it appears large individuals can practice bluff behaviors on mammals. Of course, it would not work with small snakes, so they don't do it. It without question bluffed me.

Again, to the average snake murderer, it was clearly an attack to kill. Cheers

Great stuff as usual FR. You mention a heck of a lot of species there. It must be a herper's dream. Though maybe a nightmare for someone trying to decipher it all..haha
Do you have as much working knowledge of L.ruthveni?
Are you keeping any these days?
By the way, how was breakfast?
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Hi Mark, The first Ruthvens ever found was found by a student trapping Scelops. He trapped it of all things.

IT was published by Cal State Dominzes hills(one of those cal states) as the intermediate between mexicana and trianglum. I believe the title included something like, the missing link.

Garska and Wagner, found the next three from the exact same locality.

My friend Ted and I then went and found 27 of them in a day and a half. We could have found much much more, hahahahaha.

We went to the original local and it was ripped to heck and back, so I went back to some good looking areas I saw on the way there. I found the peewater out of them. We then returned to the type local and found some there too.

We kept a trio or two, and left to NL to find thayeri. I found more thayeri then I had hoped to, including the black one. So we went back to turn loose some Ruthvens(I do not like to take too much, even then) When we returned to place some exactly were we found them, THEY WERE EVERYWHERE. In the trees, on the ground crawling, in the rocks, everywhere. Got me, great weather I guess. It was freezing at night and warm in the day.

I returned to the area a month or so later and checked surrounding areas, were we found DOR of what is now called webbi. We called them goofy headed ruthveni.

ALso, I believe i mentioned before, Even in the original local, we found all manner of morphs, from greeri types(super wide lite bands, to milksnake types and all inbetween. I have no idea why we do not see them in captivity.

Of note, a friend later went there and could not find them. And he is a GREAT collector. He was all pissed off, sitting in his car. While sitting there he saw a snake crawling on a little rock in front of his car. He went out and caught it, it was a large ringneck. It had recently consumed a large prey item. Hmmmmmmm yup, it ate a ruthvens, hahahahahahahahahaha. Cheers

>>Hi Mark, The first Ruthvens ever found was found by a student trapping Scelops. He trapped it of all things.
>>

You must be thinking of the first greeri, found in a snap trap by J Keever Greer and Robert Webb in 1958. The type of Ruthveni is a head and skin only, collected by E. W. NELSON, August 2, 1892, type locality on the tag is Pátzcuaro, Michoacán, but that is another discussion.

>> IT was published by Cal State Dominzes hills(one of those cal states) as the intermediate between mexicana and trianglum. I believe the title included something like, the missing link.
>>

Can you provide more information on this reference, if I don't have it, I'd love to see it.
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

Sorry Joe, I wish I could be of more help. But I am lucky to even remember this much, hahahahahahahaha. I did read the paper. Oh well. When Hugh comes back next week I will ask him if he can find it.

Can't you do a paper search for Ruthveni?? I would like to see that again as well. Cheers

I have almost every paper up to the last couple of years.
If I figure out, or you let me know I'll send it to you.
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

Joe, could I get in on that too?
Thanks.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I'm pretty sure he is talking about:

MORAFKA, D. J. (1977): A biogeographical analysis of the Chihuahua Desert through its herpetofauna. Biogeographica, 9. Dr. W. Junk B.V., Publishers the Hague, The Hague, 313 pp.

That is the one freaking pub I don't have, though I think I have some photo copied snippets. The pub is rare and expensive, 313 pages.
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

Thanks,Joe..
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Hi Joe, Morafka was the prof. of the person doing the scelop work. I do not remember whos name was on the publication.

I remember it as more of a note, then a full blown paper.

If you find it, I would like to see it again, hahahahahaha refresh my old tired brain. hahahahaha Cheers

California State University, Dominguez Hills.
-Phil

Great, was there a Herp prof. there that died in the last 8 years or so, at that school? Guezz, he came to my house, hahahahahahahaha

No worries, I can go right to the original site blindfolded, hahahahahaha, see what is important to me? Cheers

I was trying to be sarcastic. Sorry I guess it didn't come across that way. Oh well. LOL!
-Phil

Thanks Frank. It sure sounds interesting out there!
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

FR,

Can I permanently squat on your land so I can learn all this stuff.

Not asking much , am I?

email sent.
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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"