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AndrewFromSoCal Oct 25, 2007 12:00 AM

I got Squirt some more plants. See.




However, these pictures worry me. Does his pelvis look warped? I dust his crickets every feeding with CGD, and I feed him CGD every once in awhile (he doesn't like it very much, he won't eat a lot)I've even mixed some calcium with his cricket dust lately. What do you think? Just his position?
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2.2 Corn Snakes
1.2 Leopard Geckos
1.1 Crested Geckos
1.2 Green Anoles
1.0 Russian Tortoise
3.2 House Cats
0.0.1 African Millipede

RIP
Alice, Bruno, Lars

Replies (12)

AndrewFromSoCal Oct 25, 2007 02:47 PM

Should I assume there are no opinions on the matter?
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2.2 Corn Snakes
1.2 Leopard Geckos
1.1 Crested Geckos
1.2 Green Anoles
1.0 Russian Tortoise
3.2 House Cats
0.0.1 African Millipede

RIP
Alice, Bruno, Lars

warnersister Oct 25, 2007 05:38 PM

could just be the way he is sitting on the leaf that makes him look funny, hard to tell. try to get him to walk on a flat surface and look at him straight on.

you can get mad at me for saying this, but that is not a good diet for him. you should leave some CGD in there at all times (change every 2-3 days) and maybe put a few crickets dusted with pure calcium in once a week. a diet of mostly crickets dusted with CGD is just not balanced or healthy, so don't give him a choice. he won't starve himself, and will eat the CGD if not given any other options.
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3.1.1 snakes, 3.1.1 crested geckos, 0.1 gargoyle gecko, 2.0 devon rex cats, 1.0 betta

AndrewFromSoCal Oct 25, 2007 06:02 PM

CGD is molded over in a day, so it's no feasible to live it in for 2-3 days.

I understand that CGD is "specifically formulated for geckos", but honestly, half the things in it aren't in the gecko's home range in the wild. What are they eating there? Fallen fruit and insects.

I'll give your mainly CGD another try, but when he all he does is lick it in the 4 days it's out, it's back to crickets, roaches, and twice a week CGD. He's only 9 months old. Protein Calcium = a bigger gecko.
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2.2 Corn Snakes
1.2 Leopard Geckos
1.1 Crested Geckos
1.2 Green Anoles
1.0 Russian Tortoise
3.2 House Cats
0.0.1 African Millipede

RIP
Alice, Bruno, Lars

sleepygecko Oct 25, 2007 11:07 PM

CGD should not be left out for more than 12 hours according to the instructions for the record. It certainly shouldn't be left in and remoistened like I saw someone post not too long ago. (Vitamins break down in air and moisture, anyone read "Mars" from Ben Bova?)

Now, I will admit I break this rule slightly because my crested seems to like it "aged" and will eat it the next day, so it spends a whole day in there. So, yes, I'm bad, but even broke college students only eat pizza left out in the box for a day or two without refrigeration, but not much longer.

As for dusting with CGD, it works for some and it is a great way to transition a gecko onto straight CGD. However, I have always been told/ read that the crickets should be dusted with a vitamin supplement designed for use with crickets. Funny enough, it was highly recommended to me to use Leopard Gecko Dust from Trex so when we got our crested we switched our leo over to that product as well. CGD is complete, LGD supplements and fills in the gaps from the nutritional value of the feeder insects.

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0.1 Albino Leo Gecko
0.1 Crested Gecko
1.0 Dear Boyfriend
Departed: Harvey and Spock

warnersister Oct 26, 2007 06:46 PM

are you letting the enclosure dry out between mistings? i know live plants bring the humidity up, but my CGD doesn't usually get moldy that quickly. i will, however, revise my recommendation to: fresh CGD supplied 3 times per week, left in until moldy. i'm not going to get into a discussion on the differences between diet in the wild versus diet in captivity, there is just no comparison.

as for growth, feeding live insects may cause a crested to grow faster, but in the end, not feeding live does not bring about a smaller full-grown gecko. i suggest adding in the gut-loaded, pure calcium dusted crickets/roaches once a week AFTER the gecko is accustomed to eating the CGD.

sleepy, the instructions on most packages of food are designed to get the consumer to replace or feed more frequently, thus increasing sales. look at the packaging on betta pellets for example, no wonder most people's fish die so soon, it's usually from overfeeding/not keeping up with the cleaning of the excess waste produced. in the wild, cresteds eat rotting fruit, which i'm sure is loaded with bacteria, some of which are beneficial for their gut. the geckos only need to be fed 3 times per week, so as long as they are getting fresh food that often, it is not harmful to leave the CGD in a little longer between feedings.
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3.1.1 snakes, 3.1.1 crested geckos, 0.1 gargoyle gecko, 2.0 devon rex cats, 1.0 betta

sleepygecko Oct 27, 2007 12:14 AM

>>sleepy, the instructions on most packages of food are designed to get the consumer to replace or feed more frequently, thus increasing sales. look at the packaging on betta pellets for example, no wonder most people's fish die so soon, it's usually from overfeeding/not keeping up with the cleaning of the excess waste produced. in the wild, cresteds eat rotting fruit, which i'm sure is loaded with bacteria, some of which are beneficial for their gut. the geckos only need to be fed 3 times per week, so as long as they are getting fresh food that often, it is not harmful to leave the CGD in a little longer between feedings.

--------
Ummm... Really? Now, I can't say anything about your fish example because A.) I don't keep fish and B.) Not really sure where you were going with how overfeeding vs offering fresh food.

But hey, I've been up for almost 24 hours, so let's see if I can put together a logical argument everyone will understand. Ok, just for now let's say cresteds do eat rotten food in the wild. (Not all animals do, I haven't personally read whether cresteds are fresh only animals, but contrary to a lot of common thoughts, most animals can tell the difference between healthy and unhealthy food and will toss the bad stuff, this is well researched.) OK, but then we are still talking about naturally occurring generally WHOLE, but rotten, fruit. Meaning only the outside of the rotten fruit has been exposed to air and oxidized the nutrients.

Also the nutrients occur in nature in special combinations to be appetizing and healthy for the animals that eat them. (Why? Because if no one eats them the seeds don't get spread around.) The balance of the nutrients serves to keep the food as nutritional as possible, because if the animal that eats your fruit is the healthiest, then they will spend the seeds far and wider than a sick animal. CGD is a complete supplement, but at least some of the compounds are artificially created so we don't have those carefully balanced tradeoffs to prevent degradation. There are two options, add preservatives or shorten the "activated life" to keep the nutritional value more consistent.

You'll notice the package in the bottle, to prolong the shelf life of the product. When we mix it with water and expose it to even more oxygen the clock is ticking very quickly. Even human vitamins contain extra ingredients to prolong shelf life or are coated to prevent oxidation and other degradation processes.

So, in summary, I am not saying it is some horrendous thing to leave the CGD in the tank for long periods of time (unless it molds) however I am saying that that nutritional value drops so there is a very good chance if your gecko is still licking up the diet on the 3rd or 4th day (which I have seen) they are getting food and the feeling of being full, but not the nutrition... like eating puffed rice cakes or something. (might be extreme, but you get the idea)

Really, MARS by Ben Bova is a great sci fi novel to show just how important handling nutrients is in an artificial environment. Which, for all purposes, keeping our cresteds in a tank is not much different than keeping humans in a tank on Mars.

(Oh, and I'm still going to reiterate that the crickets should be dusted with a complete formula as well in order to balance the nutritional needs of the gecko. This has been stressed to me too many times for it not to sink in. Calcium = good, Calcium w/ other stuff = better)

-----
0.1 Albino Leo Gecko
0.1 Crested Gecko
1.0 Dear Boyfriend
Departed: Harvey and Spock

warnersister Oct 27, 2007 01:56 AM

wow, that was much ado about nothing. you missed the point. i said: "the geckos only need to be fed 3 times per week, so as long as they are getting fresh food that often, it is not harmful to leave the CGD in a little longer between feedings."

>>(Oh, and I'm still going to reiterate that the crickets should be dusted with a complete formula as well in order to balance the nutritional needs of the gecko. This has been stressed to me too many times for it not to sink in. Calcium = good, Calcium w/ other stuff = better)

NOT if you are feeding mainly CGD, which already has all the necessary vitamins/minerals. this is why you don't NEED to feed insects with it, but if you do, make sure they are gutloaded and some extra calcium isn't going to hurt (w/out D3). anything in excess of that and you're looking to OD them. perhaps you are thinking of leopard geckos.
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3.1.1 snakes, 3.1.1 crested geckos, 0.1 gargoyle gecko, 2.0 devon rex cats, 1.0 betta

olstyn Oct 26, 2007 03:19 AM

>>However, these pictures worry me. Does his pelvis look warped?

I'm not qualified to diagnose based on those pics, but my understanding based on what I've read is that pelvic problems are often caused by enclosures without enough horizontal spaces for the gecko to rest on - supposedly if they spend all their time hanging vertically on glass, that's when they develop issues. Mine's got a wooden ladder going diagonally from one bottom corner to the opposite corner midway up that she loves to sit on - you might try something similar, as I notice most of the plants and other surfaces in Squirt's enclosure are vertical. Obviously diet can play into it as well, but providing horizontal surfaces in addition to the vertical ones is cheap insurance, plus more variety of places to be/hide is always good as far as geckos are concerned.
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0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko - Tigger
0.1 Crested Gecko - Pooh-Bear

AndrewFromSoCal Oct 26, 2007 03:57 AM

Awesome, i'll run some bamboo vertically, maybe some dowels too. It's not like I hold the bugger, so it won't be getting in the way. Who had a bird ladder..sleepy? Squirt often sleeps on the ground, below the magnolia leaves. You've got me for a reason..maybe because it's more moist? The girl's 37g gets started tomorrow. They're totally stoked.
-----
2.2 Corn Snakes
1.2 Leopard Geckos
1.1 Crested Geckos
1.2 Green Anoles
1.0 Russian Tortoise
3.2 House Cats
0.0.1 African Millipede

RIP
Alice, Bruno, Lars

olstyn Oct 26, 2007 10:18 AM

>>Awesome, i'll run some bamboo vertically, maybe some dowels too.

Well, actually, what I was suggesting was that you get something set up that provides a horizontal (or close to it) surface, not vertical; you've got plenty of vertical stuff in there already.
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0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko - Tigger
0.1 Crested Gecko - Pooh-Bear

AndrewFromSoCal Oct 26, 2007 03:54 PM

Haha, no no, I understand. When I said bamboo, I meant the dry stuff running horizontally from side to side. Sorry, I should have made myself more clear. Do you think it's alright if it's not perfectly horizontal? I'm not sure how well suction cups will hold up over time.
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2.2 Corn Snakes
1.2 Leopard Geckos
1.1 Crested Geckos
1.2 Green Anoles
1.0 Russian Tortoise
3.2 House Cats
0.0.1 African Millipede

RIP
Alice, Bruno, Lars

sleepygecko Oct 26, 2007 04:50 PM

Yup, I have a "parrot ladder" it was an idea I got from another crested and gold gecko owner. The same wood that is poisonous to birds is poisonous to geckos, so that makes shopping simpler.

I think anything little thing would help at this point. I know it doesn't go with your natural theme, but those gecko hammocks are pretty good... at least our leo loved hers until we gave her a gigantic rock house and had to remove it. I'm a bit slow on the bleaching and cleaning, but it was going to be a hand me down to our crested when I got around to it.

As for the hips, geckos are kinda bendy, I agree with whomever said try to get a picture of him "straight" or maybe sticking to the glass? Not much else for help. Sorry.
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0.1 Albino Leo Gecko
0.1 Crested Gecko
1.0 Dear Boyfriend
Departed: Harvey and Spock

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