Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Greets,

Could someone currently working with womas share the cooling/mating timeline they are using? I'm guessing these guys are flexible in regards to timing, but I'd love to know what's working for others before I start up. Also, how long do the eggs generally incubate?

Safe Travels,
DBR

DBR the usual fall cool down with a warm up in Feb/March works for me (though I have had them lay 2months before or after these times)so its hard to say. Mine breed year round but generally dont produce anything outside the "window". I have incubated in the low 80's and now incubate in the high 70's as I feel the warmer end of the spectrum can potentially cause problems (kinks, DOR full terms etc...). I incubated last year a full 5 degrees lower and the eggs hatched out a week earlier than a clutch hatched at 81, go figure...They are nice snakes for sure and the price has stayed relatively fixed for the last 7 years or so. There are alot of muddy animals out there for less than market price but all you have to do is look at them and see that the old adage "you get what you pay for" holds true. Heres a few I produced this year...

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Cheers
Lateralis
"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

Nice looking offspring! Have you (or anyone else) noticed particular heritability patterns or traits? One of the things that interests me about these guys is that I've seen alot of subtly different animals...band size, color intensity, etc...but nothing dramatic. Seems like there's alot of potential there to produce attractive animals, but their genetics may be more complicated than simple dominance patterns...

Anywho, thanks for the info...I was particularly curious if anyone stateside was using a cycle more in line with australia, and if that seemed to work better (though I've yet to hear of anyone having much trouble with these anywho).

Incubation of woma eggs in the upper 70' and low 80's?? Are those figures typos, Doc?

Yes that has to be a typo Doc made. I've never heard of any python eggs producing healthy hatchlings at those temperatures.

Perhaps some of the other breeders here will chime in.

That's death temps, especially the 70's part.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.1 Bloods
1.1 Balls
2.2 IJ Carpets
1.0 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
2.0 Jungle Carpet
0.1 Carpondro
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
.1 Brazilian Rainbow boas
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

No typo mates, those are the temps I, and breeders in Oz, use. I stick with what works for me and wont be changing anything considering my results...my clutches typically hatch out between 65-75 days at these the aforementioned temps.
Think about Gilas, they are inhabitants of some of the hottest terrain we have in the states yet they are known to be tolerant of and in need of lower temps and different AH conditions to thrive. Likewise their eggs are incubated at lower temps than most reptile eggs. I think the thermal requirements for Woma eggs are not set in stone, rather they are acceptable of a range that at the extremes can be damaging. Its all about "degree days" and proper humidity...termite mounds and rabbit burrows in Oz are nowhere near 80 plus degrees for any lasting amount of time. The thermal requirements for python eggs differ from ssp. to ssp. what may work with one does not necessarily work with all...

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Cheers
Lateralis
"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford

Interesting...the only other source specific to womas I've heard was around 86, from the breeding articles at southern cross. If you get the time, i'd be very interested to hear the details on your incubation setup...

...that this is why I use maternal incubation primarily. Momma knows best!

-Yasser
SR

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"No typo mates, those are the temps I, and breeders in Oz, use. I stick with what works for me and wont be changing anything considering my results...my clutches typically hatch out between 65-75 days at these the aforementioned temps."

I'm very keen to see documentation of this, Doc. Very interesting.

""Think about Gilas, they are inhabitants of some of the hottest terrain we have in the states yet they are known to be tolerant of and in need of lower temps and different AH conditions to thrive. Likewise their eggs are incubated at lower temps than most reptile eggs.""

"Its all about "degree days" and proper humidity...termite mounds and rabbit burrows in Oz are nowhere near 80 plus degrees for any lasting amount of time. The thermal requirements for python eggs differ from ssp. to ssp. what may work with one does not necessarily work with all...""

The difference is that Heloderms do not incubate their own eggs thus they are incubated at whatever surrounding temperatures. All pythons, however, do incubate their own eggs thus their eggs are not incubated at surrounding temperatures.

I wonder what Dave Barker would say? I know Richard Ross lost a lot of eggs in the 70's temp range, according to his book.
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1.1 Blackheaded pythons
1.1 Woma
2.1 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.1 Bloods
1.1 Balls
2.2 IJ Carpets
1.0 Coastal Carpets
1.2 Macklotts
1.1 Papuan Olives
2.0 Jungle Carpet
0.1 Carpondro
0.1 Jungle/Diamond cross
.1 Brazilian Rainbow boas
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

I'm very keen to see documentation of this, Doc. Very interesting.

I could show you my incubation notes, but as far as I know nobody has done anything on this with Womas yet.

The difference is that Heloderms do not incubate their own eggs thus they are incubated at whatever surrounding temperatures. All pythons, however, do incubate their own eggs thus their eggs are not incubated at surrounding temperatures.

I know that, my point was that both (Heloderms and their eggs) require lower temps to thrive and hatch. All pythons may incubate their eggs but I am sure they do not do all maintain the same average temperature during said incubation. I will ask a buddy of mine in Oz if he knows of any studies from his, or other profs, students on this topic.

I may experiment this year and hatch some eggs at low and high threshold temps to see what happens...

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Cheers
Lateralis
"I would rather be precisely wrong than approximately right"
Marion "Doc" Ford