Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm a little pissed about this so I decided to write and get some other people's opinions.

On 10/17 there was an ad for a 800g female albino ball for sale in the classifieds. I could use one so I e-mailed the guy and told him I was interested. He e-mailed me with his phone number and I called. We decided that I would send him a check for the snake which I did. I told him I would send him an e-mail asking him more info about the female which I also did.

A couple of days later (10/21) I receive an e-mail from the guy asking me if I sent the check because he had not received it. I emailed him back telling him yes, I had sent the check.

Today (10/25) I called him to see if he had received the check and to find out the rest of the info about the ball since he never responded to my questions. He did answer so I left a message. He called me back informing me that another buyer had paypaled him the money and he had sold her.

Now this really pissed me off considering that I told him that I had sent the check and he hadn't contacted me to tell me he still did not receive it after I told him I had sent it AND also sold the snake to someone else. After all first come, first serve is what most people go by.

I have been in the same position before except I was the person that paypaled the money and the other guy, who was first had sent a check that the seller had not received. Upon receiving the check the seller refunded my money. Yes, I was pissed for loosing the snakes, but I understood, he was first and actually the seller shouldn't have told me he'd sell them to me after the other guy told him he had sent the money.

Now I understand in this business everyone says money is coming and half of the time it doesn't show up but when you contact someone asking them if they send the money and they tell you they did then I feel you should not go ahead and sell the snake leaving the other person thinking that everything is still fine and they're going to get a snake. When I don't receive payment after someone tells me they are going to send it I contact them to see if they did actually send it. Most of the time if the didn't they will not respond or will tell you they had some kind of financial thing come up and couldn't buy the animal. But when someone says, "Yes, I sent it," I feel that it's wrong to sell it.

Thinking it over and not wanting to just be pissed for the rest of the week (yes, I said rest of the week, when I decide i'm going to buy a snake and someone tells me it's mine it pisses me off for a while when they sell it to someone else from under me)
I called him back and told him that I could paypal him the money right now. After all, I was first. The only reason I didn't paypal the guy in the first place was to avoid either one of us paying paypal fees which in this case the snake was over $1K, if it was a cheap snake I wouldn't care. He told me that he had already shipped the snake, so he couldn't do anything about it.

Any input would be appreciated.

thanks,
Matt Oakley
bloodpython160@aol.com

Did you get your check back?

No, he said he didn't recieve it yet. I called my bank to have a stop put on it.
thanks,
Matt

It doesn't solve the issue of the snake sold out from under you, but I think that is the best possible thing you could have done.

The whole thing sux dude.

Good luck sorting it all out.

~Rebecca
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1.0.0 Dumeril's Boa '04
1.1.1 Ball Pythons
[1.0.0 '05 Orange Hypo (Specter)]
[0.1.0 '05 Het Orange Hypo (Sylvia)]
[0.0.1 '03 Normal (Sue)]
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40lb darling lap dogs:Brandy&Mara)

Haven't experienced this myself, but ya, I think I'd be pretty mad too. seems like poor business practices, whether in the herp world or not. I would however want to know more about his reasons for doing what he did. Is it possible he has good reason, that we just don't know about?
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James.....
"Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought the beast back."

He said he hadn't heard from me and the other guy said he had the money right then. But, I told him that I had sent the money and feel that if he decided to sell the animal after I told him that then he should have contacted me to let me know this BEFORE selling and shipping the animal. I actually would have paypaled him the money right then.
thanks,
Matt

I agree the guy was wrong to sell her out from under you, but so many people say the check is in the mail and it never shows up. He should have called you before he sold it to another buyer though. I can't wait for the day when paper checks are a thing of the past.
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John Vandegrift

I don't know what all transpired between you two, but I don't hold any snake unless I have a deposit in hand. Even on deposits, I'll only hold for specified time. I'm sorry but if you send a check and somone sends paypal or check and it reaches me first, its thier snake. I would be very clear about and returning phone calls.

Its too bad he couldn't just shred your check. I hate those stop payment fees.

BUT if someone says the deposit/payment is on the way and can provide you with a tracking number saying that it was in fact sent, you would hold it then right?
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

It may not seem like it now....but,

This guy did you a big favor!
Now you know who you do NOT want to deal with....and it has not cost you any money.
Imagine if you were not happy with the snake.
Makes you wonder how this seller would have taken care of his customer????
It has cost you nothing really.
And you learned something worthwhile.
Sometimes it is better to know who NOT to deal with than to know how many people are good to deal with.
Unfortunate, but true.
Either way...sorry about what you went through...I know it is not pleasant.

sounds alot like some people I know.........hhmmm

........one reason I don't ship..I deal in person....

.......and I hate holding snakes for people........they always want stuff and never have the cash......or at least on time......

....and yes alot of people never come through.....

.you are right.....they are wrong.......post them in the BOI.......or hint their name in here?.....(could be everyone.)./...and we can make fun of them and call them silly names....or make them feed their snakes only one small mouse a week?......

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......and noone wants the big girls anymore....wow..................
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I always send 2 day with a delivery conformation then you have proof that it was sent. They can also ck the status. Sorry you lost out on the snake. He should have at least contacted you first.

I only pay with paypal or by credit card. I never send money orders or checks because the seller can screw you over. That really sucks. Hope you get your money back.

We have all held snakes based on, "the check is in the mail." Sometimes it shows, most of the time it does not. My advice, ask if they want a Paypal deposit to hold the snake, and then send your check.

>>We have all held snakes based on, "the check is in the mail." Sometimes it shows, most of the time it does not. My advice, ask if they want a Paypal deposit to hold the snake, and then send your check.

I'm old and I'm also old school. So I believe if you say you are going to do something, you better damn well try to do it. I hold snakes all the time for the "check is in the mail". It has lost me countless deals as the check rarely arrives. A deposit is a great idea. You tell the person you'll hold the snake with a deposit. Most of the time, window-shoppers and time-wasters won't even bother.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Yes, that is a good ides that a couple of people have mentioned. If I would have know this situation would have occured I would havedone that. Going from my experiences most of the time when someone tells me that they sent the check, it arrives. I take people telling me that they are going to send it with a grain of salt because half of the time it doesn't.
thanks,
Matt

On an almost weekly basis people responding to my classified ads on this site tell me they are sending payment for an animal or animals and they are just outright lying. I have lost many sales due to this practice. People with buyers remorse after they realize how much money they commit to spending.

Therefore nothing is sold until paid for. If you wanted something and did not want to use paypal you can always overnight the check or money order for $16 through the post office. Really not a big price to pay for getting what you want locked up right away and I don't know anyone that would not hold an animal overnight for you.

As a seller who has done thousands of paypal transactions though I will tell you that the fee is equalivalent to the bank fee paid when somebody accepts a credit card payment through a merchant account. People who complain about the fee or ask others to pay it should understand it is just a cost of doing business. Depending on your account structure it is 1.5-3% of the price. Is that really a big price to pay for instantly having money from another state or country? Bank transfers, western union and money grams usually cost more.

I agree, it sucks. But my question is why would you send the check and then ask questions after? If I am going to buy a snake I want to know everything about it before I pay....
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-David Harrison-
.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Striped Anery Corn "V" or "5".....Has two names
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
.1 Ball Python "Rocky Ballboa" (Didn't name her!)
0.0.1 Crested Gecko "The Crested Gecko"

"Have you ever tried simply turning off the T.V., sitting down with your kids... and hitting them?"

That is my usual practice. I asked him:
What was her dob?
Who produced her?
And to describe her enclosure setup.
I was going to buy the snake regardless of the answers so it didn't really matter when I got the answers and since I wasn't on the net at the time of us making the deal or sending the money I told him I would just ask the questions next time I got on the computer. I agree with you though, all the time I have people who ask me all these questions AFTER receiving the animal and I think ,"Why didn't you ask this stuff a long time ago?"
thanks,
Matt

I think it's shady that he didn't get ahold of you to find out where the check was BEFORE selling it to someone else. That's crap on his part.

BUT whenever sending checks or money orders, you should always send them Priority or Certified Mail with delivery/signature confirmation -- that way you have physical proof that the check was delivered on a certain date and the seller can't pull the "I never got it" excuse. Priority Mail plus delivery confirmation is less than 5 bucks. Well worth it to make sure your payment is tracked and covered.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

I think in many cases, they did receive your payment - they just wanted the fast buck of PayPal or something.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Thanks, i'll be sure to do that from now on...
~Matt

I always do it, I'd never send one without it. I like having the reassurance that I have proof in case the seller decides to pull something. You never know with people these days...
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

It's a crappy thing to do but no crappier then someone saying payment is on the way and it never shows up or the post mark is several days after they said they sent it. So far this year I have had 3 women lie to me about sending payment. Two of them agreed to the terms and said they be sending paypal immediately and then never sent it. The third one said she mailed the payment and when it arrived 10 days later I saw that the post mark was 6 days after she said she sent it. I did have one woman make the commitment and actually follow through this year. I have had a few slow paying male customers but none that said they would be sending payment and then refuse to reply to email or just back out because they found a better deal somewhere else.
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......this is where i like to point out obvious things or make negative comments...........

There are a couple of thoughts that rattle around in my head when it comes to this situation.

The first being that I read on a lot of people Terms that an animal is not sold until payment or deposit is received - this is something that if you are not sure of you should ask - especially if you are not going to be making an automatic payment. I too have heard my share of "the checks in the mail", "the payment will be sent tomorrow", etc. and I don't even sell that much. I can't imagine how many times people who sell a lot hear it.

The second being - it's always something I tell my customers if they are paying by check or MO - is if you are going to snail mail a payment - send it next day or two day if the extra $1 is going to break you, with a tracking number. That way 1. I know you are seriously sending the payment - for me this will hold your animal in lieu of an actual deposit or payment. And 2. if it goes missing, gets delayed, mis delivered, etc. you can track it down. Provides piece of mind for both parties.

So I kind of "get" both sides of the deal - sounds like there was a little miscommunication or misunderstanding between parties - I do agree that the seller should have at least notified you that he hadn't received your payment and was going to sell the animal to another party before doing so.

Perhaps you can chalk it up as a learning experience.

You'll probably find a better deal in a couple of weeks anyway and then be thankful you didn't get the other one!!!

Good luck!
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Tosha
JET Pythons

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