Reptile & Amphibian Forums

What is the deal with this ad? From reading here it would seem that bearded genetics are a mystery and a true genetic line breeding has not occured, no absolute recessives ect. If this is real it would be worth a ton, however at 4 years old this girl should have produced a bunch already.
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I wonder what makes them think that baby is an anery? If it were, there should have been more, if it was bred to the same male that produced a first one.

Most of my babies come out looking dark & white,, are they anerys? No.

Also, that baby does not look like it came out of the egg at all. It looks like it was removed from the egg (part of the egg is still on the bottom of the curled up baby)

That is my thought on it.
Joel R

And what does the comment "before hybridization" in reference to Dragons Den all about, what kind of hybrid is he referring to?? Strange ad.

Perhaps it was bred to an anery cornsnake??? that would produce het for anery hybrid. lol

Otherwise known as the most beautiful dragon in the world. )

Joel

Well, she is special and she knows it.... LoL, she oozes it, if she wants to be a honduran milk dragons, she can be, she can be anything in the world she wants....... cause she IS special MINE!!!!!!!!!!!! and the most beautiful dragon in the world!

This is the most laid back, calm dragon I have ever seen.... she just knows the world is right for her! I love her to bits!

Lol! I was looking at that ad this morning... very strange...
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-Lauren

~ Lauren's Lizards ~

groups.yahoo.com/group/LaurensLizards

It is almost like he is saying that there was some sort of hybrid bred at dragons den that tainted the line that produced his 2200 dollar 4 year old female that is capable of throwing one black and white dead in the shell baby every blue moon..... strange wacky stuff.

Not worth the cost he is asking for this dragon...any dragon female can throw an odd ball in a clutch, quite another to have a third or more of a clutch producing something different. I may bay $200 for the mother, if I was in the market...

these have actually become the rarer of colors here, and from what we saw at Daytona and talking to others, this is what many are working on for next year. Personally I do not think a baby is a true indicator of it, they can change so dramatically as they grow and shed.

True graphite babies are a strong indicator of anerythristic (no reds) & axanthic(no yellow) colors (the two combined forming orange), but they may not stay that way and are very hard to find in bearded dragons.

This is what we have been working on for 3 years now and shooting for next year with our 2 and 3 year olds.

Our male we are keeping fingers crossed on for next year:

So you're saying that this is a rare color?
Strange, I would've thought it was quite common...
Matter of fact, there's 4 more just like this one, where we got her.

.

Nothing to be sorry about.

And I think you explained it just fine.

What I find rather funny is the fact that after all this time of breeders trying to get a particular color INTO dragons, now they're apparently trying to get it all right back out again.

The three B.D.s we have here were all bought as pets, and their colors were of quite a bit less concern than their dispositions. When we got the one I posted the picture of, we had first looked at a gorgeous yellow one. He, however, proved to be a "Snap dragon" who was out to bite anyone close enough. He might have calmed down later, but we really weren't willing to risk it.

Anyway, I'm still quite new to all of this, and am trying to make heads or tails out of what's what, so don't pay too much attention to my silly questions.

Somtimes I think the iguanas were actually much easier to understand. lol

D.A.

are grumpy all the time! very easy to understand.. hehe

>>Nothing to be sorry about.
>>
>>And I think you explained it just fine.
>>
>> What I find rather funny is the fact that after all this time of breeders trying to get a particular color INTO dragons, now they're apparently trying to get it all right back out again.
>>
>>The three B.D.s we have here were all bought as pets, and their colors were of quite a bit less concern than their dispositions. When we got the one I posted the picture of, we had first looked at a gorgeous yellow one. He, however, proved to be a "Snap dragon" who was out to bite anyone close enough. He might have calmed down later, but we really weren't willing to risk it.
>>
>>Anyway, I'm still quite new to all of this, and am trying to make heads or tails out of what's what, so don't pay too much attention to my silly questions.
>>
>>Somtimes I think the iguanas were actually much easier to understand. lol
>>
>>
>>D.A.
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reiko
photos

>>are grumpy all the time! very easy to understand.. hehe

Okay, who ate my last post???

Anyway, what I said was that all three of our dragons are shedding right now, so are very iguana-like.

And as for "grumpy", well, I've been married for more than 20 years, and am quite familiar with it.

D.A.

Has anyone found even one trait that is recessive in dragons? I am not talking about people working towards a color shift, I am talking about an easy 2 generation absolute predictable genetic color or pattern. I mean if it is a true xanthic or amel or whatever a qick 2nd generation inbreeding is all that it would take to confirm.

a 2nd generation inbreeding starts showing problems and get progressivly worse with each generation.

Low clutch rates, poor immune systems, failure to thrive dragons, smallness, deformities, twining (unable to survive), organs outside the bodies, extreme aggression and more.

they just seem to be more sensitive to inbreeding and back breeding than others. Maybe it has to do with the small gene pool to begin with.

I do know many breeders that are very disappointed over this and have left trying to breed bearded dragons due to it, having several clutches with problems and special needs becomes more than most people can deal with and putting them down is heartbreaking, when you know you caused it.... it was thought that this could be done safely, but more breeders are acknowledging that it can not be with them.

It is one of the reasons we are so opposed to inbreeding them, you may get some awesome colors and traits, but they are not proving to be recessive and the other results are not worth it. Also with the growth of popularity of bearded dragons here, there are other alternatives now.

Just some random ramblings from me.

If bearded dragons are that sensitive to inbreeding than naturally they must have a huge distribution area. Generally speaking, animals with a very very small distribution area are quite immuned to inbreeding with negative traits not appearing til the 7th generation or so.

Many of the reptiles, fish ect have the same problems with inbreeding, but when you are looking for a trait you do it and you should be able to mathematically calculate the trait in the offspring, once you have determined that then you can outcross for vigor. The big breeders are very familiar with these methods and if there was a hint of an amel or any other trait in the current population of available beardeds it would have been done a long time ago. It is obvious the the current state is one of high color and low color (whatever color is desirable) and high pattern or low pattern, I have not seen the absense of any color or the absense of any pattern on one single photo, although with what there is to work with I am very impressed with the results that the breeders are returning. Somewhere down under there is an amel and an any and on and on, but until one is found the color process in these guys is going to be slow and very confusing.

albinos and hets?
I think an Australian breeder produced these.

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Photos

That is exactly what I was talking about, now just get one of those into the U.S.A. and look out in a few of years.

We've been seeing this picture for 2 years now that I know of plus all the stories about them , the legend grows each time the picture is posted.

Legends:
1. The parents were bought and smuggled to Europe after the babies died
2. They supposely never ate and all died of liver failure
3. They supposely were killed by a neighbor spraying pesticides
4. They were bought by a breeder in the US, smuggled here from Australia and are being hidden

What we do know for a fact:

No report was ever made to National Parks and Wildlife Service in Australia about them (the rangers will pick up and do a necropsy at no charge to determine cause of death)

All private breeders are on a registery in Australia and expected to report anything like this, including mass die offs

All private owners have to have a permit to keep bearded dragons there and they must buy from a licensed breeder (again the same thing regarding the rangers and deaths in native species)

None of the major Universities in Australia have ever seen or heard of this

No one can name the person that's suppose to have hatched them and there does not seem to have been any others if in fact those were genuine... its a rare beardie that only produces one clutch

Its always possible that they did exist or where taken from the wild and never followed the regulations in Australia so the person who is suppose to have produced them is remaining silent.

Yeah - sounds like a really great way to con people out of a lot of money! Hahahahahaha!
(oops... did I say that out loud?)

Seriously - I didn't see anything special there.
Looks like a bunch of normal dragons to me.