Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How big do the African Soft fur rats get? All the pics I've seen, they look like mice. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks

they get a little bigger than jumbo mice but just a little smaller than small rats.
-----
Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

They do look a lot like mice - and I think that throws off how big they tend to look in pictures. They are about the size of a wean to small rat - I think the average adult weighs like 50-60 grams.
-----
Tosha
JET Pythons

Insert Silly Quote Here

Seems to be the average weight for our breeders. I just weighed several with the lightest being around 60 grams and most of the males were in the mid 70s.
-----
Louis Kirkland
Cornerstone Reptiles

I've weighed a large mouse once and it went 111 grams...pregnant....

my ASFR are like 3 to 4 times as big looking as the large mice are.....I don't have a scale so I really don't know, but they are as big as good sized medium rats (or some pet shop larges..)...

...they are fattening.......and do bite......and waste as much food as mice do....

average 16 babies every 23 days if all goes well....
-----
your mommas' so fat?...
what you want for a dollar......
$..?
.

Some of our retired breeders would probably be a little heavier, but I've never weighed them so I'm not sure how much. Earlier, I weighed some pregnant females (mid gestation) and they were around 120 grams.

I've always been surprised at how light the ASFRs are when I pick them up. They look heavier than they feel. They don't seem to be as muscular as rats or even mice for that matter.
-----
Louis Kirkland
Cornerstone Reptiles

they do weigh less than we think.......and I have had some real porkers though......fed dog food corn oats and lab chow.plus other crap.and bird seed.......some get big....and fat.....I have to watch what balls I feed the big ones to or they get scared halfway in and spit them out......so the big girls and real big girls get the most....and a couple of the males...

anyways.......when I say pet shop large.....they are like mediums to most of us probably.....

.......most of my ASF get fed to cornsnakes as smalls......

..

,,,,,,,,
-----
your mommas' so fat?...
what you want for a dollar......
$..?
.

My biggest ASF got to 100g before she was fed. My females actually seem to get a little bigger than my males. I would say my adults are bigger than a small rat but smaller than a medium. I think the full adults are pretty much the perfect size for adult ball pythons.
-----
John Vandegrift

pic

-----
John Vandegrift

I wonder if there is a lot of genetic variation in the US ASF population. Some report mean and some report laid back, some report small and some report bigger. Could there possibly even be multiple subspecies here?

there has to be......

mine are mean when IN THEIR homes ..like russian hamsters..once you get them out they are ok......

.......same with size as you said....

......there are at least 2 species/sub-species.........but suposedly we all have the same Praomys as each other? I think.....

.
.and about the albino ones..are they white with red eyes or are the people talking about the yellow and whites with red eyes????........I never did get an answer on that before either.....
..

.
-----
what you want for a dollar...............???????

.

The ASFs i find to be heavier than they look,you can just feel that its a good meal.C

You're right - Color me clueless - I was going by all the care sheets - I guess I should have weighed them for myself instead.

-----
Tosha
JET Pythons

Insert Silly Quote Here

In general,we let our feeders grow to around the 80 gramme mark, but ex breeders are 125 grammes.

as they stay so small compared to rats, an adult ball python will have to eat a half dozen of these nasty tempered guys to get the same meal weight as a medium to large rat. Even though the litters are bigger, seems to me they won't go around as much as a rat litter.

I can see their value as a prey item for those finicky wild caught or extremely picky captive bred ball pythons, but other than that, is there any other value other than variety?

Not that I think these cute little guys are a waste of time and effort to breed and feed to snakes, just curious as to what all the benefits are to the cons. I certainly have always felt a variety of prey items is good, though giving ball python's nature, mixing and changing prey types can set them fasting...but i wonder if sometimes they just get bored of the same thing week in and week out...
-----
PHLdyPayne

It's an interesting idea...I have a female who was fed a variety of prey items before I got her. She got rats, mice, and occasionally baby dwarf rabbits (the person I got her from also bred dwarf rabbits). She is by far the best feeder I have. She switched to F/T on the first try, and she never misses a meal. I got her in March. She was almost 400g then and she's about 1350g now. I only feed her rats now since I breed them, but I always wondered if her great feeding habits were due to being fed a variety of prey items as a baby or if it was just a coincidence.

Anyways, just thought I'd share that...

Shelly

Why would you ever need to feed a large rat to a ball python??? My adult bp's that are fed ASF's are fed 1-2 adult asf's a week and grow fine. They are not as nasty as you seem to think. They will try to nip you but I trust them more than mice. I have never had one bite me that drew blood and have only been nipped 2 or 3 times.
-----
John Vandegrift

Have any of you tried frozen thawed ASFR?

do they bite?

...
.
.

.
(sorry)....mine can be nasty and I have bled more than once)
-----
what you want for a dollar...............???????

.

I have only tried one FT once and she did take it (I just put it in her hide and it was gone in the morning) but I find FT to be a PITA so I almost always feed live.
-----
John Vandegrift

they are usaeful to balls that like them over mice and won't eat rats.....chinese hamsters seem to be preffered even more...

they are fattening....you all say they are small and useless...they are fattening my friend says..he has one female ball that eats just the ASF and he cries all the time what a fatty she has gotten on them..and that's less than one a week he feeds it.......(he skips weeks )......

.....anyways.....they have alot more benefit to king and ratsnake breeders I bet.......if they would try them....

..and I haven't gotten a baby ball to eat one yet (non feeders tried only)
-----
your mommas' so fat?...
what you want for a dollar......
$..?
.

My tough feeders like Gerbils best (have not tried hamsters) but all but one of my tough feeders take the ASF's. I have to breed gerbils for one snake. I wish gerbils bred as well as the ASF's
-----
John Vandegrift

An adult mouse can be pretty risky when left alone with a ball python. I know that we should always watch a live rodent left in with a snake.

Since ASFs are supposed to be a bit nippy to people, how are they when dropped into a cage with a "live feeder" python?

Thank you for the info.

Chris
www.coilsserpents.com

To me the biggest pro (from what I've heard) is that they don't stink nearly as much to raise. I understand them to be an arid creature like gerbils or hamsters that don't make a big wet mess like mice and Norway rats. I'm thinking I could actually pull off raising them in my house.

Unfortunately they still seem to be rare enough that I doubt I'll have many to choose from but would of course like to find the largest and most docile lines possible and try to breed to improve even more on those traits. I wonder how quick selection progress could be made?

I am used to feeding pretty big rats though. I know a lot of people feel that smaller is better but I can't always feed as often as I would like. I even upped one of my just barely breeding sized females to large Norway rats last week. And my 3,000 gram girls don’t even get a lump from a large rat. So feeding multiples would be new for me but if I had my own colony I could feed a lot more often. No finding time for trips to the rat breeder and feeder budgets to get in the way.

Randy, I have several colonies of ASF and while they don't have that offensive mouse odor (at least it's offensive in my opinion)they do have a odor. It's rather spicy spelling.
-----
Alice Cobb
Florida Reptile Room

When you say their odor is somewhat 'spicy,' is it along the lines of golden hamsters? Those have always struck me as smelling spicy and/or fatty.

My other question would have to be, how do you find enough African Soft Furred rats to start a breeding colony? I have yet to even see any for sale!

Thanks,

~Rebecca
-----
1.0.0 Dumeril's Boa '04
1.1.1 Ball Pythons
[1.0.0 '05 Orange Hypo (Specter)]
[0.1.0 '05 Het Orange Hypo (Sylvia)]
[0.0.1 '03 Normal (Sue)]
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40lb darling lap dogs:Brandy&Mara)

some areas have so many ASF that people have hundreds in the freezer and some people actually sell them as rats and don't tell people that they aren't norways......and some have seen them sell at a local animal auction for like 40 cents......

....depends where you live

and are they legal?........depends who you ask and where...

.
.
.
-----
what you want for a dollar...............???????

.

Randy - another pro is that they usually pick one corner to use as their bathroom - supposedly you can litter train them as well - tho I don't use a litter box it does make necessary cage cleanings a little less frequent when you can just scoop out and disinfect a corner of the cage when it starts getting stinky.

Heres a real good link for some ASF info: asfrats.info/
-----
Tosha
JET Pythons

Insert Silly Quote Here