Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just wanted to know from the people who have them.
How active are adult water monitors, black throat monitors, peach throat monitors, mangrove monitors, ornate monitors and argus monitors (again, given their husbandry is correct)? What I mean is, do they spend most of their time sleeping/hiding or exploring? I know that most young monitors spend lots of time sleeping/hiding, so I want to know in which monitors that changes.

The young small monitors are more active. They spend more time climbing, exploring, and sometimes dont sit still very much at all. Most of my hatchling to subadult monitors have always been very active, they dont even sleep very long at any given time, their too curious.
When they grow up and they get big, and they are growing very little they become somewhat lazy, and do alot less. But this depends on average by species too, my albigs as adults have always been lazy compared to my flavi-argus, and depends how my ackies are they can be active or lazy.

Hello
Have you ever had adult waters? I know the argus are very very active no mater what size. The black throat monitors you have, in general, would you say they explore more or stay put?
Thanks for the reply.

Ive seen differences with males to females, and as they get bigger they get less active (females more so I think), spend more time in ambush mode, waste less energy, and eat a whole heck of alot less.
Ive helped care for waters, and set them up for others, but I dont have any interest in that big of a monitor. Ive noticed that they get lazier as they grow up.
Niles, and ornatus Ive kept, but never any long term interest or to keep through adulthood, too much water involved like the water monitor. From those Ive cared for and set up as adults, they seem to get less active as adults.
Flaviargus are awesome for activity level, they fly across the cage as young, or as adults, but less as adults.

First, I question what you know. As young monitors do not "normally" sleep all the time. If they do, then your conditions are wrong.

But then, you must understand monitors, before you can even judge what they are doing, which by the way is a huge problem, for both keepers and academics.

For instance in nature, monitors are not active everyday. They are active what a need has to be filled and the weather permits it. Then you have to understand the needs. Many biologists think monitors are foragers, they classify reptiles is such ways. But the REAL truth is, they are ambush feeders, first, and foragers second. They ambush feed when they are only a little hungry, but then that fails, they take things into their own hands and go dig up something(forage). Also wild monitors, normally know where to get food and go directly there. Foraging is somehow thought of as mindless hunting. You know, just looking anywhere. Of course, they(the monitors) never read that they HAD TO BE one or the other.

What this means is, how do you know if your young monitors are inactive? could they be in ambush mode? This one is easy, if you throw a cricket in the cage and they fire out like rockets to get it, they were simply in ambush mode. But if you have to dig them up and they did not struggle. I would check your husbandry.

Also, if your temps are marginal, they take days to digest food. But if they have good temps, they normally digest their food in 8 to 10 hours. Again very easy to test. An example is, feed them pinkies and their fecal pellet is reddish brown, feed the same monitors lizards and their fecal pellet is Black. Armed with that knowledge, you can measure how long a monitor takes to eliminate a meal.

So yes, what gives you the idea that young monitors sleep alot? Sleeping a lot in my opinion is from poor conditions. Pleas take no offense, This is how I judge my own monitors. Cheers

I know that most young monitors spend lots of time sleeping/hiding, so I want to know in which monitors that changes.

^^^^^^^

Sounds like he was just mis-informed or assumed that baby monitors were more skittish and hid more.

I don't think he had a question about his own personal non-adult monitor, although i could be wrong.

My adult blackthroat usually is up and out of hiding just about an hour after sunrise. She usually basks and hangs outside of hiding from anywhere from 4-5 hours before hiding again. Then after that she may come out for another hour or more before sundown, only rarely.

I do notice that a lot of the time she is bedded down, she lays either just outside of her burrow, or with her head out of her box, depending on where she is hiding at the time. FR made some excellent conclusions on their "ambush" technique. I believe this is what she is doing being half in her hide.

First of all Mr. FR........ I know nothing ,,,haha
I was just wondering how active adult monitors are? I'm conducting research and I want to know in general how active each type of monitor will be as an adult. I don't have any now. I'd rather have a monitor that explores then one that does not much of anything. Do your adults monitors explore constantly or do they lounge most of the day?

Actually you said, you know that young monitors hid/slept most of the time. You used that to compare to adults.

The same thing I said for babies, goes for adults. Its more about how they are kept, then them being monitors.

In my experience, monitors are TOOOOOOOOOOOOOO active. They are also doing something or getting into something. As far as I can tell, thats a monitor trait. They are active and curious. They are so curious, they get in trouble.

For instance, when a monitor gets lose in my building, I set a trap. I put out a bucket and a latter up to the top of the bucket. The monitors climb up the latter and fall in the bucket. hahahahahahaha no need or any bait or water, they just gotta know whats in the bucket.

Why I mention that is, many people keep them poorly(but still alive) and those monitors do not appear to do anything but eat and sleep. So please understand, its up to you. If you keep them right, they are as active as mammals. Keep them poorly and they are boring as a stone. Cheers

If you had an adult; water, black throat, mangrove, peach throat and ornate in individual enclosures that were optimal for each of there needs; which of these monitors would be the most active throughout the day (I know day/night isn't that important as is use of heat)? Please rank them from most active to least.

Comparing the animals listed,in captivity the smaller species would be more active (ie peach throat, and mangrove, both very closely related), on average smaller species are more active as adults in captivity.
By the instincts of these species in the wild I would say the albig would be more active (they travel good distances regularly, and climb trees alot), water monitors according to Daniel Bennetts book spend most of their lives around one area of water in rather high densities. The peach throat and mangrove seem to stay in a smaller area from what I remember reading about them, although spending alot of time climbing. Although Im not completely positive on those 2. The ornate monitor is found mainly in one area in Africa, most information on them is jumbled together with the nile monitor, so Im not sure, but they spend more time in forested areas not far from water, probably alot of time in water to.
Why these particular species?
I ask because these are the commonly stocked and sold larger monitor species sold at lower prices (99% of each are cheaply priced because they are imported).
Now if you added in some species such as argus, flavi, ackies, storrs, croc monitors, perenties, blue tail, etc, I would not get the idea that you are searching for a cheap big impressive captive.
Widen your search perameters, find a species not by common availability, or low prices or being so big as adult size, but, by its usual behavior of being very active, and the smaller the better, especially if you dont have alot of experience with them.
Walk before you run.

Hey There.
I can see why you would think that but housing/feeding large monitors is very expensive and the initial cost of buying one is nothing compared to keeping one. I chose those monitors because of their adult size. Croc monitors I would never keep, too much monitor for me.
Thanks for the reply.

Why would you consider a water monitor which gets larger and heavier, an albig or ornatus which can both exceed 7ft and are heavier monitors than a croc monitor?
You see theres more reasons I come to that conclusion by your posts.
By the way, many other monitors will cost you the same, or less to buy if you get CBB. Many medium sized more active species that are CBB will cost less than a CBB of any species you mention above.
As far as small species go I can find yellow ackies for under $200 pretty easily. Im sure you can find many small species now for a few hundred, or sometimes less.
When someone looks at the narrow list you chose from they are looking at cheap WC animals, otherwise they would know that CBB from these species even cost a few hundred.
The costs of keeping a large monitor as far as caging and food are huge, no exageration, if you are looking at low cost large monitors and thinking that you have time to pay for the caging and food later as they grow up, you are wrong. You need to plan ahead and be able to pay the high costs now.
What I paid for caging for small monitors cost me 1/8-1/4 of what I paid per ackie, what I paid for caging for my flavi-argus is about or close to normal pricing for the monitor, what I paid over the years for albig caging cost far and beyond what all of them cost to buy combined, thats compared to what one of the cages cost to build. With large monitors you are looking at over a thousand dollars for one proper cage. And as they grow multiple cages are needed for their normal growth. Basically they grow out of a cage by the time your done with it, and ready to start on the next one.
Food is another big cost with a large species, albigs, ornatus, and water monitors can eat more than an entire collection of medium and small species can eat themselves. I figured this one out recently, what one hatchling/subadult cost to feed in its first year exceeds what they cost as an adult plus 3 other adult monitors of various sizes.
Electricity, and other forms of heat, are much higher in bigger caging. The work required to dig, carry, and load thousands of pounds of dirt in a large monitors cage is amazing (also consider if the floor is trong enough to hold such weight).
You see not only have I thought this one out many times, but I have experience with it.

To put it in a little perspective, It costs about $50 to $75 dollars a year to feed one ackie. A ball park of 3000 adult crickets and 100 pinkies. $45 or so for the crickets and $25 or so for the pinkies. Of course you can find those at higher prices and lower prices. So its an average. As well as amount, you can feed more or less, but that amount will work well.

Compare that to a larger monitor of any of those species. Is one rat a week enough, that would be 52 times, $6 or so, thats $312 bucks right there. Depending on the size, you could feed two to three times that. So if you have a large water monitor, you could easily pay near $1000 bucks a year to feed it. Again you could feed less or more or pay less or more, its ballpark U know.

Then take Electricity. One 45 watt flood or 56watt incandesent can heat an ackie cage, but it would take a bank of higher wattage bulbs for a larger monitor. On this I am guessing, $30 bucks a year for an ackie and several hundred for a large monitor.

How about the cost of a cage. I build my breeder ackie cages for $90 bucks a cage(four foot troughs with lexan lids) or less. It would cost many hundreds for a similar setup for a larger monitor. Lets see, a four foot trough is ONLY twice as long as a good sized ackie(2 foot) So to be equal( which is minimum to start with) You would need a 12 foot or longer cage for a larger monitor. A cage that size is expensive and has to be waterproof. Which is expensive.

All this and you do not have experience to deal with any monitor yet(or you would not be asking this type of question)

So I recomend a gouldi cross, as they are not expensive, they are manmade, so you are not impacting nature by taking wild caughts. And if you make a mistake and loss it, no big deal. I personally think you/we should be VERY responsible with wildcaughts. That is, we should be expected to do far more with them. As they are a product of nature and nature is growing thin.

Also gouldi crosses are hardy, don't bite unless they think your food and that will occur unless you teach them otherwise.

Of course ackies are great, as they are no so fast as some other smaller monitors. Which means, if you drop one, you may be able to catch it. If your drop a tristis or pilbara or kimberly outside, its bloody gone, like a rocket. Oh if healthy. Ackies are a little fast, but not too bad.

So please think about it, and pick something you can learn from and grow from there. Cheers

Thanks for the replies. Money is not an issue. I have no problem paying higher for CB. That however is not my concern right now. I acquiring information to see what monitor I will get. I have a garage that I will convert into (many enclosures or one). As far a crocs, I would not have one due to their ability to inflict severe damage. I know any monitor may cause harm, but from what I've read, crocs could do much more damage then other monitors. Unless I'm wrong, which is totally possible.
Thanks FR for the break down on cost. I had a ballpark figure that is close to yours. Mine is higher on the electric bill. I am handy with tools and material. I look forward to building the enclosures needed. But that wont be for a while unless I find a monitor that will best suit me know.
FR, you mentioned crosses. I haven't seen any on KS. Where would I find one? Are you still producing them?

Please keep in mind, I/we, hear your story all the time, you know money is no object. But sadly it always becomes an object. You see, when your new, its not, but five or ten years from now, when you got this giant fat ugly water monitor(it started all pretty and stuff) and all it wants to do is eat. You start to lose interest in that bottomless pit and start to think about doing something more interesting with your money. No one is saying you don't have money, its more about after the newness wears off. You know, a bunch of dents and no new car smell.

But lets put the money aside. What about space, you did not mention my ackie to large monitor comparison. I often put ackies in six foot cages, that would be the same as putting a couple waters in the average garage(20 by 20ft) Actually your whole garage would be a little bit small.

My feelings are, putting big monitors in little cages is very very sad, and really not in the best interest of the monitor. I have bred to generations, both small types and larger types, including crocs(several times, not generations) It felt none of my setups were large enough for crocs. Which is SMALLER then water monitors, way smaller.

Why do you think big monitors are rarely bred? do you think they are somehow harder then smaller monitors? In my opinion, they are many times easier. The problem is, they are normally kept in TINY cages. Consider, an adult six foot monitor could not even leave its own imprint on the ground in a 12 foot cage. A garage is even tiny for an animal that can easily walk a half mile in a half hour.

A fellow on our forum put ackies and gilleni in six foot cages. For the gilleni, thats six times their total lenght. How sweet is that.

As you sound very very reasonable, you should use that ability to talk yourself out of large monitors. "For kind and humanitarian reasons, please think of the monitor" Do the needful and oblidge, consider a smaller monitor. hahahahahahahahaha funny sentence but very true.

And yes, I breed and have baby crosses. If you like I will advertise them on KS. And I have eggs too. Cheers

Hey FR.
Yeah I would love to see your baby crosses.

I mostly work with waters but I also work with mangroves, Rough necks, Timors and I suppose savannahs because people give them to me. Although I do not work with ornates I did have a nile for almost 15yrs and many people regard them as similar in habits being they were once considered dif sub. of the same species. I have found that all 5 species I work with are equally active but there is differences in activity. I find mangroves to be a little more flighty than other spceies I work with (and incredibly fast as well.) I find that timors and savannahs tend to hide a little more than the other species at times but are still active and come feeding time will come out of hiding rather quickly. People who think large waters are inactive either don't keep them or don't keep them properly. It's late morning as I am writing this and things are quiet now but I here some movement about. Come this afternoon I'll have some waters moving about and making so much noise that you would think someone is breaking into my house if you didn't know better.

Hey MadAxeMan.
Frist of all, thanks for answering my question and sharing your experiances. How large are you waters? How long have you had them? Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've been reading, this is what I should expect from a water:
A baby water if kept properly will grow to about 3-4 feet in one year and at about 1 year will start to trust you and allow some interaction if you have respected and given space (not forced handled or touched at all). Does that sound about right. I know each is different, but does that sound about right, generally speaking?

You have been reading cheap "petstore monitor lizard" books.
They all seem to have that same opinion about all species, or most.
Each and every monitor is an individual, one example may trust and like a certain person more or only, one may like or trust none ever, one may warm up after 1-5 years, one may go off like a bomb on you every time you see them, and one may seem to like everyone. Ive seen waters that fall into all of these descriptions and more.
Be prepared for an unhandleable dangerous monitor, and hope that yours falls somewhere else in personality.

I have worked with waters for about 13yrs (lucky 13 eh??) The largest water I currently have is a female that is 4.5-5ft. She is about 6yrs old and is an absolute shark who will take your hand off if given the chance. I have several other waters from 18in(recent aquisitions) to just under 4ft. and their temperament goes across the spectrum . From tolerable to absolute sharks. I have one water that is just over 2ft that come out of the cage after you at feeding time. This one is a botomless pit and I'm going to have lots of fun in another year. This water is not unique as I have had others that would get this exited at feeding time in the past and they were much bigger. I have had docile waters as well, however the two most docile waters I ever had were also responsible for the two worst monitor bites I ever had. One that almost took my thumb off. I do not mind agressive waters at all and almost prefer them that way. Water monitors are incredibly intelligent and of the many species of reptiles I have worked with they are my favorite species to work with hands down they are however a lot of work and require good cage building skills as these animals definately need large cages and while they don't require large water containers(Kiddie pools/Plastic ornamental ponds) they deserve consideration as these monitors LOVE water hence the name. I'm not trying to discourage you from woking with waters to the contrary I think more people should be working with them. I just want to give you an idea of what you will be getting into. You should definately start with something smaller if you have no experience with monitors. That water in "the Freshman" is cool but they definitely are not all like that one.

Grim
In my experience with Jobiensis (captives) there is no noticable differences between juvenile and adult.

A very active species!
Mike

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Mike's Monitors!