Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been attempting to get the hang of palpating for follicles.

In the past, I havent had much luck with this, however, this year I have decided to make a concentrated effort to figure out how this is done and get my technique down pat.

Its early so I am basically getting my baseline set at this point and I have been checking weekly for them.

I take my breeding females out one by one and I first work with her a bit to get her to relax some and so she is are not like a steel band. I drape her neck over the edge of a chair and then with my thumb on her backbone and my pointer and middle fingers pressed up under her belly, I run her from about 8 inches back from her head, all the way down to her vent while keeping an even consitent pressure on her belly.

In the past I have been unable to feel the follicles until they got very big and obvious.

How does everyone else do this and when and what do you look for early on? What benefits is there to palpating and is it only beneficial if you are breeding large numbers of snakes for timing purposes with the males? Please feel free to comment or correct the way I have exlained that I do this because it is a really tricky technique to get right. Half of palpating is the mechanics of it and the other half seems to be an artform almost..

Thanks!

RDR's site has a good article on palpating. I read it last year and it worked for me. It's similar to the way you're doing it. I was right about which females had follicles, but apparently I'm not very good about counting. I ended up with way more eggs than I thought, lol.
RDR's Article on Palpating

Thanks. That is a very good atricle. I have been to his website before, but I found it a little confusing to navigate. Rock it Dude this..and Rock it Dude that...I found it hard to find information. It is probably just me?

What benefits do you gain personally, other than just being aware of how many follicles, eggs or potential slugs you may have? Do you use palpating to time when you place your males with her? I mean, I dont have that many girls to breed, but can you cut down on havng to place the male with her other than just at a certain point?

Thanks again!

It just helps to keep track of how your females are progressing and how close they are to ovulating. It may also help you feel them easier if you use a paper towel in your hand while she slides through. It makes her slide much smoother and makes it easier to feel the follicles IMO. You are not going to really feel the follicles until they get to a decent size. I don't even bother checking until december and I start cooling towards the end of october.
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John Vandegrift

Great, thanks for the tip with the paper towels I will try that. I have been able to keep track of the size and number of follicles I just have always thought that people used this information to optimized when and how often they utilize their males.

Maybe I am over thinking it a bit I dont know?

I only have one or two females per male, so they get bred often enough without me timing it. Last season was my first season, but I did put the males in with their females alot when the follicles got really big. Maybe when I get a bigger collection I'll have to start being more selective about when I pair them. Right now I just like knowing who I can expect clutches from...it kinda gives me peace of mind knowing the females are developing on track.

Yes, me too. I dont breed that many females, and my males have the luxury of making many visits to each female and spending lots of time. I am just curious to know all aspects of the hobby and to do each one well...

I mean if you had a ultrasound machine, could you time it so you only would have to place the male with the female at the precise time that will fertilize the eggs? Maybe just once or twice and you could hit it? With palpating too, if you are proficient enough at it can you time things just right? They way I do it now, placing the male in with the female on and off from November to March...this doesnt seem to be the most exact way to do it- no?

I bet you could...it's done with other animals, sometimes even down to breeding within 12-24hrs of ovulation. I wonder if the presence of the male helps stimulate the female to develope follicles, though?

That is basically how I do it. But I let her crawl back into her bin. I have it down now that I can even feel the slugs.
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http://www.jasballpythons.com./

I personally cannot do it...and won't squish my girls the way most people do......they either lay or they don't...and if you throw males in with them at least once a month from October to March.,,chances are you'll hit something....

most people do as ou do I guess......hold them till they settle down then let them crawl back into the box slowly while squeezing their fingers into the belly enough to feel the different bumps.......

I've always wondered (and I am being serious).....?..IF you squish the snake enough ,and enough times...could you theoretically push the sperm back down and out the vent.....?....even though they have to be up into the oviducts and lined up awaiting the ovum to drop down?........fat girls have bad eggs /duds at times due to the sperm not being able to swim up into the oviducts past the fat bodies.....so if we squeeze them back down? is it possible?....
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what you want for a dollar...............???????

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Jeff,

You might have a new form of birth control there.... Push the belly till its away from the eggs?

Lol! Seriously, I know what you mean.

BTW I would suspect that poor fertility in fat females is due to two things:

1) Too much fat = too much insulation; a fatter female may have a higher internal temp (this is of course just an educated guess), which could be enough to damage sperm (this would also be why the general advice is that males should not be excessively heavy - too much fat for them could also cause poor sperm viability due to being maintained at the wrong temp).

2) Fat binds reproductive hormones - this known complication in several species that are far better researched than our darling BPs. Progesterone and estradiol (estrogen) are generally not species-specific, and are known to get bound up in fat tissue. That is why fatter females of most species have reproduction problems; with all of the reproductive hormones bound up in fat, very reduced amounts of these hormones are available to the target tissues, often resulting in reduced ovulation or no ovulation... and for that matter, in males, testosterone would get bound up, leaving less available to stimulate production of sperm.

...it should not be due to the fat physically blocking the sperm from entering the oviduct (that would be a "stuffed-sausage" fat snake!!)

...oh, and for all I've mentioned about temperatures and sperm viability, this is extensively studied in many other species - mostly mammals - but snakes need to be kept in a temperature gradient so that they can thermoregulate; they still have an ideal internal temperature, and this very likely does impact sperm viability.

~Rebecca
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1.0.0 Dumeril's Boa '04
1.1.1 Ball Pythons
[1.0.0 '05 Orange Hypo (Specter)]
[0.1.0 '05 Het Orange Hypo (Sylvia)]
[0.0.1 '03 Normal (Sue)]
0.2 American Pit Bull Terriers (40lb darling lap dogs:Brandy&Mara)