Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here is how I see it.
I may not have it exactly right...but I am not completely wrong either.

What is wrong with making some money?
The USA is often thought of as the "Capital of Capitalism".

Snakes cost a certain amount to buy and raise up....food, caging, vet bills....not to mention all the other things you could include in the equation.

By selling a snake for a decent price....it allows you to better provide for your animals....which gives YOU the opportunity to better provide your customers with the QUALITY they are looking for.
It allows you to add new genetic traits to your collection.
Which give your collection more variety....(The spice of life).
There is nothing wrong with making money...even if it is just enough to cover your costs....as a hobbyist.

If you are wise about it....and MANAGE your funds and expenses....if you MARKET your animals in an innovative manner...there is no reason that you can't EARN a return...as a business.

I am happy to admit that MY TIME IS WORTH SOMETHING.

You have to EARN your income.

Very few people "get rich quick"....and those who do... are often looked at out of the corners of our eyes.
(Perhaps with good reason.)

Some people laugh at the term "Invest"...when used in the same sentence with the "Ball Python Market".
....Others laugh all the way to the bank.

Get rich quick schemes usually fizzle out rather quickly.
Perhaps they may work...(very short term thinking) LOL.
But soon people see them for what they are.... usually scams.

But if you want to be involved for the legitimate long term....
Be flexible with the ever-changing market... be innovative.
OFFER SOMETHING DIFFERENT, Something better.
....not something cheaper than the next guy.

If you are in for the long haul...you have to put your TIME in.
And YOUR TIME is worth SOMETHING.

Is your quality and selection worth something???
If so, don't be afraid to ask an equitable price for it.

As far as breeding and hatching out snakes goes....
Who doesent like to see babies poking their noses out of an egg???
It's a miracle every time you open the incubator!
I don't care if it is a normal or a morph...rare or common.
I think everyone who has bred and hatched snakes gets excited about the next clutch....and the clutch after that....
Money aside....keeping and breeding snakes is fun!
We all love it.
And getting paid to do it...WOW!
That only helps us to afford to properly maintain our obsession / habit.

Of course some people can maintain a decent collection without selling anything....but this requires a good paying "REAL JOB"…
....or an generous benefactor...(Sugar-Mama / Sugar-Daddy!) LOL!

side note:
Don't you think "Sugar-Mama" and "Sugar-Daddy" are gonna make some awesome names for new combos involving the calico/sugar traits....

Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!
970-245-7611

The above post was intended to be in reference to the
"New Trend" Post which was recently moved to the
Business Trends and Issues Section.

I posted just as it was being moved...
And it ended up here.

not be seen, not read, and ignored.
Just so tired of those.

I dont see where asking a question or making a statement is so terrible that grown adults cant stand to even look at it? Come on now? I dont even agree with what the guy wrote for the most part either...

As far as:

"that's where it belongs" "not be seen, not read, and ignored."

Everyone has control over every post thats put up on here. Its called if you dont like soemthing: Dont open it & Dont respond to it & Ignore it.

Do you really feel that shouting someone with a contrary opinion to yours down, or attempting to ostracize them is what an open forum is supposed to be about? The contary opinions are what make this forum, this country (if I can be so bold) a great place.

I am not in this hobby for money. I know this and that's enough for me, thats all that matters. I could care less what Joe Smoe with his opinions about trends or whatever thinks? It is the defensive people you got to wonder about?

That's my opinion and I am still entitled to it I believe?

no post
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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I might be incorrect, but I didnt take the gentlemans (thisdude) post to mean that there was anything wrong with breeding to make money. The way I read it was that he was saying that people who may have originally got into this hobby for investment purposes have now changed there tune to "I care for the snakes" now that their big dollar dreams have not panned out?

This is the way I read it. I did not take it to mean that anyone who breeds snakes for money does not really care for the snakes.

The two things, breeding snakes for money and caring for snakes, do not have to be mutually exclusive to begin with IMO?

Exactly....You got it right.

I just posted my 2 cents on the subject of snakes and money.
The post was not directed at anyone really.
Just laying my cards on the table.

The original post was just moved...so it looked as if I was bringing up a new subject.
Actually I was just stating my opinion on the subject.

And it looks like you and I agree.
Take care,
Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!
970-245-7611

Harlin, I agree 100% with what you said, but to your "ethical" money making ideas, there always a flipside.
The flipside in this hobby are the people who, for example, breed their way too small males to make money fast, people who keep their animals two or three to an enclosure to save space and time. I can go on for hours regarding all the negatives of how the money to be made in this industry corrupts.
Even if you absolutely adore the hobby, and money simply was not the reason you got into it in the first place, making money doing this is just extra icing on the cake.
I re-invest way too much of my money I earn each year and turn it back into the hobby because I love producing "new" heads that poke out of those eggs.
Would I do it on such a large scale if the money wasn't there? Honestly, no. I would have half of the collection I do now, but I would still breed every year.
What I would not do is put any of my animals in harms way to make more cash or produce more animals.
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www.strictlyballs.ca

You just described BHB. So now what is your point?
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http://www.jasballpythons.com./

Oooohhh, touche......
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www.strictlyballs.ca

well he just described about 95% of the very large breeders out there. But on the flip side, I wouldn't have close to 200 animals if they weren't so expensive, I'd have 400 as I could afford all the morphs not just select ones.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

and the best part is we'd be able to produce twice as many babies to keep and SELL!!!!
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

.

Couldn't agreed more!
Very well stated, to bad everyone couldn't have such a realistic view of this industry !

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J&J REPTILES
www.jnjreptiles.com
sales@jnjreptiles.com
(207)479-6658

The Ball python (industry)? Or the flipping reptile industry??
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http://www.jasballpythons.com./

you mean the people who say they do it for the fun are lying or they never did remember the days when guys would nail sheets of plywood together for cages and line them with floor tile....wire mesh around the light bulbs for heat and for small snakes tuna fish cans for water bowls......or big dog bowls for big snakes....even ash trays for smaller snakes......tumbler glasses?........newspaper was the norm and for huge snakes like burms the "new thing " was kitty litter for substrate....but they used the word bedding.....bugs were dealt with using Shell's NO PEST Strips (hey....I got one hanging in the room now).....no internet, just locals with the same interest, and most of the snakes were wild caught ...Exotic stuff was store bought....or ordered from Importers from the backs of magazines ....Florida was probably the place....boas were like $12.50...wow....alot of money......LOL......

was that fun?........

probably.....at least they (we) had time to go out into the wilds......with rack systems and 300 snakes (Corey's 800 )...LOL......who has time to go out and hunt ....hard enough to find time to fish....

I do it for fun and I better make some cash at it too....they pay for themselves ,,,,,and Chinese buffets.......aaaaaah....

.
.
.......I wish male pastels were worth more than $50.......

.........suxx......

.
.
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what you want for a dollar...............???????

.

you forgot a few things.. the digging rusted nails out of your feet from the tin piles...the nasty infected cuts on your hands from flipping the tin and any other rusted appliance that was lying on the side of dirt roads.... the thought of albino anything made everyone weak knee'd and don't even bring a "just a lucy"... having more than a 2.4 of anything was considered a huge collection of that species.... getting 25% of your animals to breed was successful (which meant you'd get 1 or 2 clutches of any given species).... and to go back to what you said, mite treatment was flea collars or no pest strips.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I never got nails in me.....there aren't that many tin piles around here......and I don't go travel for herps.....wish I could/would......I hunted the woods a little that's about it....most of the farms I went to actually sucked...they actually cleaned up the place and took all the trash out......and the one good dump with lots and lots of snakes here was plowed under and they built a satelite or cable station on it....building with a big ish out front......suxx......no snakes there to be found used to find dozens in a day......

......burmese python in a 55 gal tank on the floor behind my bed.......no heat source.....11 foot in 2 years....grew an inch a week for the first few weeks after I got it......and it didn't get sick.......ha.......

........breeding.........didn't talk about that here back in the day.........wrong friends.........did breed pigeons and rabbits as a kid.......mom hated snake ideas......

......my favorite memmory is still tuna cans........

.......
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what you want for a dollar...............???????

.

never had to use tuna cans, but my first clutch of eggs ever was from a wild caught gravid eastern hognose. woke up one morning to 20 eggs. used a critter cage filled with "dirt" from the compost pile placed on top of my closet so my parents wouldn't find them for incubation. think only 3 didn't hatch. First python was an african rock (what a mistake that was, lol). that thing almost killed me, litterally.

the good thing about growing up in louisianna and s. carolina was that even the clean farms were loaded with tin and old buildings. And living just two counties over from the okeetee area, it was the norm to find beautiful corns. I do miss hunting like I did when I was in my teens. Take off for a day or two with home made snake hook and a couple pillow cases I stole from my mom and just walk. those were the days.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

I sat and thought for abit on that post. When i was about 11 we moved to a place in Mi. Walledlake.. That place had so many snakes as far as Michigan goes. You name it it was there.. I went back 20 years later with my Daughter just to have a look around and show her how much fun it was to walk around flipping what ever .. That place changed so much there was only one shot to look all the rest were built up or turned into a golf corse.. We did have fun and found a few Garters and a DeKay.... But it wasn't the same place and all the best spots were gone... Makes you wounder how long they can keep building and clear cutting,before everything that lives around there is just gone..... But those where the days Morning hunts for black rat snakes are gone around that area.

Greg VanZweden

http://www.vanzwedenreptiles.com/

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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters

Hey Jyohe
You used sheets of plywood!! Wow you must of had a paper route. LOL I used slats from the wooded boxes that fruits & vegetales used to come in (circa 1960's). A lot has changed since then!!! When I opened my store I was so proud when I could afford to buy new water dishes that were all the same type.
Bruce Delles c/o Twin Cities Reptiles
CELEBRATING OUR 29TH YEAR IN THE RETAIL REPTILE BUSINESS

I agree with you 1000 percent. I dont know why as of late people act like if you want to make some money from the animals you breed your a bad person.....

and Im not just talking about profit that pays for rats,,,,

its perfectly fine to make a bundle if your capable....

I don't think that is what has been said exactly. No one is denying that it is nice to make some money, but that is not the purpose of being in the hobby. The money is a bonus when you make it, and a very nice one at that. I guarantee you that some of the top names were here long before the money and will be here long after. I think most people are saying that they do not do it for that purpose only. We all enjoy showing off the fruits of our labor and if that's all one could get from the hobby that would be OK.

Like I said in an earlier response to you, you posted with the intention of calling out jas and pfan and I don't think you have a clue what either of them does with their collection. But I do think one thing is obvious in all of this, and that is the fact that your posts are not popular because they are always negative.
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Happy Herping,
Jody Barnes
Royal Kreationz

My snakes aren't fat, they're big boned.

Hey (This Dude),

Looks like we are on the same page.

If you treat your customers right, offer reasonable prices (rather than under-valuing/under-cutting), and provide high quality animals....if you really MARKET your stock and MANAGE your business....

YOU WILL MAKE A PROFIT.

And there is nothing wrong with good commerce done right!

Why else do people respect Successful and Honest Business Owners?

Everyone enjoys keeping these animals....but the potential of actually EARNING a profit certainly adds a little fuel to the fire.
Doing it Right.... may not be a recipe for "fast easy money".

But trying to "get rich quick" is a pretty good recipe for "fast easy failure"....or at least a great recipe for tainting your reputation.

Doing it right may not only be finacially rewarding...it is also more rewarding for the soul.

People often think of being competitive with pricing...
You can also be competitive with quality, selection and service/dependability.

Just an opinion.
Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!
970-245-7611

I agree completely! What's wrong with making a little money enjoying what you do? Thanks to this business, this is ALL I DO! I get to work with my animals all day, earning a living off of what I love. So I need to earn money to do it! And how am I supposed to afford the next morph? Through my love of reptiles? LOL LOL LOL NO! Through the animals I invested in and produced which STEMMED from my love of reptiles! Make no mistake about it, it's these kind of breeders who spend tons of money to get morphs in this country, who spend all day long working long hours to produce the next huge cross, who answer so many e-mails and phone calls to give those who love reptiles the opportunity to own some of these amazing animals who keep us all interested!

Now.......where I must agree.......anyone who fights for money by selling false hets, who rips off their customers (ie not sending the promised animals or misrepresenting their animals), or does not take the best care of their animals to save a few bucks should be the people who should be mentioned! When there is big money involved, you will attract these kind of people......if it is worth their while (ie $$$), someone will do it! Again, these are the people who are DEFINITELY in it for the money.....but for those who provide quality service,quality animals, and want a little profit for all their time and effort are somehow in the wrong? Hmmmmm.......

Just my 2 cents....

Brandon Boeke
Priceless Pythons

You said "OFFER SOMETHING DIFFERENT". Bingo...good point!

I think that's where most aspiring ball python breeders have totally missed the boat.

When there's 50 breeders offering the same morphs, how can they offer something different? They can't, unless they want to offer them cheaper than everyone else...so that's what they do. That's why prices are the way they are, period...everyone's producing this stuff and it's all the same. I'm not complaining about prices either...I actually like the idea of buying a morph I like without having to worry what the price will do next year.

On the other hand, if you've put in your time and paid your dues (or spent a ton of money), you're probably producing combos and homozygous animals that not everyone has...and as such, you have babies that will bring more money.

Another point is this...it really just boils down to how hard you're willing to work. If you're willing to work hard, you can make a decent living selling animals that sell for $100-$500 on average. That's what I do.
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Anthony Caponetto
www.ACreptiles.com