Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My Anduran Milk

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Ball Python
Jungle Carpet Python
Eastern King
Mexican Black King
Sonoran Gopher
Aberrent Cal King
Anduran Milk
Hypo Brooks

"To serve man..it's...it's a cookbook!"

You mean, Honduran?
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.kingpinreptiles.com
^ Updated 10/29

actually it is an Anduran,,,a cross of an Andean and a Honduran,,,,I decided to add a milksnake,,,so I got it at the NARBC in Anaheim a couple months ago...
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Ball Python
Jungle Carpet Python
Eastern King
Mexican Black King
Sonoran Gopher
Aberrent Cal King
Anduran Milk
Hypo Brooks

"To serve man..it's...it's a cookbook!"

Ah goodie.
More un-needed hybrids.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.kingpinreptiles.com
^ Updated 10/29

yep, thats what I was thinking.LOL....

great,
Shannon

cal king food

i know,,but it is the only hybrid i (or ever will)have...it was one of the few that caught my interest at the show,,,i did like the tiger retics...but really didn't want to keep rabbits in my freezer..lol
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Ball Python
Jungle Carpet Python
Eastern King
Mexican Black King
Sonoran Gopher
Aberrent Cal King
Anduran Milk
Hypo Brooks

"To serve man..it's...it's a cookbook!"

I'd like to see the head, because looking at the rest of it, I don't see the andesiana influence at all.

Because of this, in time they will "trickle" into the hobby(along with zillions of other mutts) to be sold to more unsuspecting people as "pure" hondurensis, or whatever they most closely resemble.......GREAT!!!..yet another "wrench" to be thrown into the "gears" of the herp hobby!LOL

Nothing against the snake itself, just a sad sign of the times,

Everyone seems compelled to make "their own" snake, no matter what the long-term cost.

~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I agree with you, but unfortunately the "Hondurensis" in the U.S. have a very questionable origin any ways. I'm beating a dead horse though. this has all been brought up on the forums before.
-Phil
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I'll Google your MySpace
If you Yahoo! my YouTube!

Yes,....I agree, and know what you mean ALL TOO WELL!

One thing is CERTAIN though,.....andesiana, and campbelli(as well as MANY others) were never part of the Honduran's "equation"
when they were first imported.lol!! Even the albino form.(poss. polyzona?) know what I mean?

I think we're on the "same page"!LOL

best regards, ~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Wow,,,I put 1 hybrid on and look what happens,,,lol
So many talk of keeping the lines pure and not do any hybrids. But what makes it any different when people are in-breeding to death to get a greater band count or brighter colors? I mean that is playing with nature in a way also and losing the strength of the species by itself.
I am just a keeper of a few,and I am sure most of you started as I did.Keeping snakes because they are neat and interesting animals. Nd that is why I do...I am not out to beat the other guy in having a prettier snake....lol
Just my 2cents....actually more like a dime..lol
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Ball Python
Jungle Carpet Python
Eastern King
Mexican Black King
Sonoran Gopher
Aberrent Cal King
Anduran Milk
Hypo Brooks

"To serve man..it's...it's a cookbook!"

I just wanted to ad that I did buy something because of its looks,,,but haven't we all done that,,,a big truck,,,a nice car...a Member"s Only jacket...all the snakes on here look amazing,,,and I would be happy to have any like them.
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Ball Python
Jungle Carpet Python
Eastern King
Mexican Black King
Sonoran Gopher
Aberrent Cal King
Anduran Milk
Hypo Brooks

"To serve man..it's...it's a cookbook!"

The reason I, and so many others don't particularly like hybrids, certainly isn't because some of them don't look cool, it's the fact that later down the line(sometimes sooner) they inevitably get introduced into "pure" strains of animals(by pure, I mean as described by taxonomy).

This will(and does) create many more problems than NOT to others that have, or WANT to have "pure" species/subspecies of snake.

Like I stated earlier, it's not that I don't like the way they can look,.....but what they can DO(and have already done) to many snake collections as a whole, especially further down the line.

It's sort of like looking ONLY at the individual dots that comprise a painting. Individually, they don't do much,....but when you back-up and look at the "WHOLE" painting, then it has an impact.

I hope you can understand some of this. It wasn't meant to be anything personal or anything like that, so I hope you don't think I'm "bashing" you because you liked the way a certain hybrid snake looked. But rather just trying to explain a broader picture of sorts.

The thing folks have to understand is, when there are several snake species/subspecies involved in the genetics of one snake, it no longer looks like any particular snake anymore, and can/will be sold(and bred) to whatever, and whoever, and will be CALLED whatever!.....just ask some of the MANY people I see that are ALWAYS asking....."what is this?"........The way things are going, soon you will go to reptile shows and see animals for sale on many tables, and the labels will simply read...."snake".

I'm NOT saying that you WON'T be able to find certain pure strains anymore, because luckily there are alot of people dedicated to keeping many animals genetics within their given
gene-pool. But for the many others out there they won't have the slightest clue as to what they have anymore!

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

j/k

"it's the fact that later down the line(sometimes sooner) they inevitably get introduced into "pure" strains of animals(by pure, I mean as described by taxonomy)"

Thats true, however what most people THINK is pure is really not. So all the folks who think they have pure species really have contaminated mutts and the people who are breeding hybrids are really creating the next milliniums pure species.

If a tree fall in the forest does it make a sound?
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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

Rainer,..The unfortunate part is,...there might be SOME truth to that down the road a ways(which is exactly my point).

I try not to make a huge point to argue this to folks, but there are a large majority of hobbyists that I think should at least be familiar with some of the reasons I, and many others feel this way(excluding you, I know how you feel!LOL)

Of course I don't expect to change everyones opinion on this, and I certainly respect everyone's right to think what they want,... just as I posted what my views are on it.

Anyway, I'm glad we could keep things "civil", as we BOTH know how "touchy" this topic can be!!LOL

Oh, by the way,....those "brooksi" floridana are doin' just fine, and the previously picky male has now got an awesome feeding response!

later!, ~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

But you know that what some people are calling pure is not. The hondurans (which nobody wants to hear about) is just one ssp.

My point is you can believe whatever you want to. But most of the gene pools have been poluted in the 70 and 80's.
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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to here it, does the squirrel still grab his nuts and run? Speaking of hybrids................
-Phil

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I'll Google your YouTube
If you Yahoo! Myspace!

n/p
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Great post Doug! I could not have said it better myself.
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Genesis 1:1

So you are agreeing that as long as everyone accepts they are pure it's cool to say they are? I guess its all pride in ownership?? Personally I am not a name brand kind of person. I likes what I likes and if it functions well I could care less about all the advertising, brand loyalty and made in the USA poo-poo.

Does anyone have a clue how many well respected breeders (who touted anti-hybrids sentimants) were really doing closet hybridization and made a fortune off those snakes in the early to late 80's. Same thing with the 90's.

Today we have those same breeders who openly sell hybrids. the market came down so low on colubrids that its all about the prettiest snake sells. There is no market for pure normals because there is nothing new about them. Unless you come up with a new normal there is no market.HA HA!

At least there is a positive today. We have honest herpers who differentiate the hybrids and "so called" pure and represent them honestly. I beleive that people in todays market are TRYING to keep that part honest. What you might not have realized is the top secret closet type hybrids and backbreeding that is considered the real deal "pure" animals you have today in your rubber tubs is whats really screwing things up. ...that is if you really care? Otherwise this nonsense about purity is just silly endless chit chat.

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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

You are only referring to purity as nonsense because your agenda with hybrids is always threatened with posts such as Doug's, whom by the way, did have a great post and did have some good thoughts concerning that subject. Also, you have no idea what is in my tubs, nor anyone elses that you don't know well, so generalizing " pure " snakes as conspiracy theories in the hobby does not prove nor illustrate your point well at all.

Take care and no need to keep rehashinig.
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Genesis 1:1

Billy,

I know exactly whats in some of your tubs and they are hybrids that you have there. I speak with other people and therefore know some of what you have.

As far as the comment about me being biased. HA HA! I hardly have any hybrid snakes. I produce maybe 2-6 cltches per year and thats it. Then I either give most of them away to people who buy other ssnakes from me or sell a few at reptile shows.

But nice attempt to assinate my character again! Like I care.
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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

Sorry, but blatant lies such as your last post, as well as your recent internet bullying towards others on this forum, really has to stop.
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Genesis 1:1

Not a lie. It is a fact. You just don't know it or want to know. But that's cool. I was just relaying info.
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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

ive had this coversation with doug as well but ill try my best to say it right
i my self as an open hybrid afficianado(lol) do own and sell snakes that are "pure" or same species genetically and by owning hybrids and having them at the same table is in itself enough to make some question the "purity" of my other non-hybrid animals. i feel this is a straight up crock no one gains anything by having delis with hybrids labeled as pure and then next to them having delis labeled as hybrid next to them. this makes no sense.
i really dont feel that their are many out their selling hybrids as pure knowingly just to make a buck. in all actuallity they are about the same price in the world of colubrids. a cornduran sells for about the same price as a really nice corn but is way less than most hondurans. most hybrids dont sell for more and dont sell as quickly their is no money in hybrids most (like my self) do it for other reasons i.e. the fascination that it can happen, the taxonomic consequences of it happening and it shows the true relationship of the differant "species". and to be honest they can produce very interesting patterns and colors.
all this anti hybrid stuff comes down to "if ya like it buy it, if ya dont then dont" . they are not mis represented in 98% of the cases on purpose.
adam jeffery
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"CARLOS MENCIA FOR EL PRESIDENTE"
hybrid breeders association
1.1 puebladurans
1.1 sinacorns
1.1 hypo corns
1.1 crimson corns
1.1 striped ghosts
1.1 kenyan sand boas
1.1 mbk
1.1 albino corns
1.1 childrens python
1.3 ghost corns
2.2 butter(both females motley)
1.0 snow corns
1.0 jurassic milk
1.0 house snake
0.1 anery pueblacorn
0.1 bloodred
0.1 eastern milk (eatin pinks)
0.1 striped albino corn
0.1 albino nelsons
0.1 anery motley
0.1 normal corn het hypo,anery
0.1 hypo tang hondo
0.1 rosy boa

"DO-TA-DOO".......ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

~Doug (the purist)LOL!
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Remind me not to put anymore pics up...lol
I was just wondering this...
Wasn't a hybrid created to get a prettier animal?
And if so,then wasn't in-breeding done to do the same thing?
I mean if you look at a regular corn snake from the wild,it looks nothing like the ones for sale today.
I am just a hobbyist with a few snakes,and read these forums to learn.
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Ball Python
Jungle Carpet Python
Eastern King
Mexican Black King
Sonoran Gopher
Aberrent Cal King
Anduran Milk
Hypo Brooks

"To serve man..it's...it's a cookbook!"

ding ding ding ding!

Give this man an award!

Remind me not to put anymore pics up...lol
I was just wondering this...
Wasn't a hybrid created to get a prettier animal?
And if so,then wasn't in-breeding done to do the same thing?
I mean if you look at a regular corn snake from the wild,it looks nothing like the ones for sale today.
I am just a hobbyist with a few snakes,and read these forums to learn.

Thank you!
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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

if ya dont like it after reading what "everyone else" doesnt like about it and that changes your mind about what you do or dont like about it then ill take it.
by the way its a very pretty snake.
adam jeffery
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"CARLOS MENCIA FOR EL PRESIDENTE"
hybrid breeders association
1.1 puebladurans
1.1 sinacorns
1.1 hypo corns
1.1 crimson corns
1.1 striped ghosts
1.1 kenyan sand boas
1.1 mbk
1.1 albino corns
1.1 childrens python
1.3 ghost corns
2.2 butter(both females motley)
1.0 snow corns
1.0 jurassic milk
1.0 house snake
0.1 anery pueblacorn
0.1 bloodred
0.1 eastern milk (eatin pinks)
0.1 striped albino corn
0.1 albino nelsons
0.1 anery motley
0.1 normal corn het hypo,anery
0.1 hypo tang hondo
0.1 rosy boa