Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I am restating my question I asked below regarding the top soil I had bought for my new monitor housing. I have received alot of good responses and wanted to "bump" the thread to the top so everyone can see and add their two cents.

I mixed 3 parts EarthGro top soil with 1 part decomposed granite. The top soil has a ammonia smell to it and gives off heat when aerated. The ingredients for the soil was one or more of the following: soil, sand, forrest material and compost. It was suggested that manure compost was added and to use peat moss to neutralize the smell.

My question is, is it safe to put my monitor in this mixture while it still is emitting this odor? The cage will be pretty closed off to maintain humidity. I notice the smell dissipates if I don't "turn" the substrate within a couple days, more or less trapping it under the top layer.

Thanks for the help. I want to get this housing completed and give him room to stretch!

I use topsoil with no fertilizers and no organics...something about making a monitor live in harsh chemicals and another animal's feces makes stuff like what you plan on using unappealing to me.

Most chain store bought 'bag' topsoils have other ingredients besides the topsoil itself. Around here there is a local place that sells 'pure' topsoil....basically soil dug out of a pit somewhere and bagged up...no extras, just soil.

It was definitely not my intention to buy smelly top soil. From the looks and description on the bag, it was deemed "natural" and organic. I don't know how soon it got bagged after being processed, but the heat coming off of it could be from the processing, which will recess eventually, leaving quality digging soil. At least I am hoping

this reminds me how tough it is when folks email or call and ask the "simple" question "where can i get soil for my monitor?"

even though it seems simple, it just isn't, it is a process that each keeper has to work through to deal with their own subtleties and issues : )

best of luck!
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Tell me about it! Weight, density, composition, ingredients...it is def a learning experience. I think I have a good, diggable substrate. Just need to get rid of the smell, which probably adds to the richness

Digging is not all that important, a healthy monitor can dig in concrete(almost, hahahahahaha). Its providing the monitor something it wants to dig in.

Different species have different perferences.

I break it down to two types, desert soils, and leaflitter. Leaflitter breaks down into a very nice ACTUALLY natural soil.

When those companies advertise natural, they also consider cow crap natural and it is. Leaf litter and its soil smells sweet, not like some gas. hahahahahahahahahaha

But as mentioned, if the monitor recognizes and uses the soil, your in like flinn. If not, try again. All of use had to work through dozens of types before we found what is right for each of our applications.

And sir, that is totally different. For instance, soils are most important during nesting. If you take Mikes wonderful pics as an example of not so good nesting. Let me explain, monitors normally nest deep in the ground, if they nest on the surface, that means something is wrong. You know, where you can take a pic of them. And yes, we have done that.

Please understand, I am very hopeful that those eggs will hatch, they look awful good. But, two or three events like this often causes the demise of the female. And yes, I know this from experience.

Whereas, on the otherhand, we have a female thats nested 59 clutches without problem. Of course that is the most I have ever heard of. Normal is way below that. I would think its normal for a female to lay 20 clutches in captivity.

Our task is to keep them going, not get eggs once or twice. Of course, if you get eggs its better then not. The key is keeping the female healthy.

Understanding that means soil that stinks is most likely not the best(as mentioned) Personally, I have not had any purchased soils work to average. I go and collect our soils. Cheers

Well I guess the real test is throwing him in and see how he likes it!

Yes, that is the real test an its about your only course to take. You will learn fairly fast if that soil suits your and the monitors needs, good luck. Cheers

Personally, I wouldn't use it - Use it for plants. Why take a chance?
It is really frustrating these days - You can't just get regular old potting or top soil anymore - It all has additives.
Good luck!
Max

I would like to use this product if possible. The list of ingredients involves the following: This product is regionally formulated from organic and inorganic materials derived from one or more of the following: peat, compost, ash, sand or native topsoil. But the front of the label says its Organic. Am I screwed here?

Jeff
Peat, compost and ash= no good. The rotting peat and or compost generates the heat and stink your experiencing.
Like Robyn said soil aint easy.
After 12 years of shlepin litteraly tons of dirt, soil, sand, cypress mulch, leaves, coco fiber and a bunch more...I think I may have a good mix, now!
Good luck to you.
Mike

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Mike's Monitors!

Point taken. I was also under the impression that peat's acidity neutralizes the ammonia from the compost/ash. Is this valid...or what the soil is supposed to be doing? Second, is this dangerous to a monitor?

Jeff
The acidity of the peat is not very good for any skin in the long haul.
Peat is very acidic, and when dry it can become airbourn and will definately burn soft tissue membrane in the nostrils and throat.
It has happend to me plenty of times mixing!
I quickly learned peat is harmfull!
As far as nuetralizing goes, if there a need to neutralize it can't be good.
Mike
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Mike's Monitors!

So confusing...I wish I could have used all decomposed granite, athough it was way too heavy...and expensive. I emailed the manufacturer for more information. I will research other top soil suppliers and hopefully get something workable. THanks for you help

i found sum reilly good dirt in a pile down were the County Yard had sandbags for when it was flodding here. it come in from a long ways, theres no dirt like that here. might be wirth a look.

If you mix it properly peat is just fine. I have used peat in my soil mixtures for over 10yrs and run into few problems as long as it is mixed properly. I use peat mixtures in all of my day gecko tanks. Day geckoes have very thin and sensitive skin and I have never had a problem some of my adults are over 10yrs old now. Cypress mulch has comparable acidity btw (as do most mulch products made from conifers) and that has been used by herpers for years (myself included) with no such problems. Bear in my I am not talking about pure peat moss but mixing it in as an additive.

Axe
I have a question for you, when YOU mix peat does your nostrils and throat burn? Be honest.

Peat does indeed have (or had) its applications, just not with Monitors(my opinion). There are great allternitives to peat, like spagnum moss (same as peat just no fine dust)and coco bricks. Like you Monitors are not the only reptiles I have long term experience with!

You mention you have run into "few" problems with it, of these few problems is burning sensation to soft tissue membrane one of those?

Cypress mulch is one of my favorite substrates, straight up or mixed again like you and the rest of the hobby I have been using it for years! Never had any burning sensations to my nostrils or throat with it...if I did I would deem it garbage...like peat mixed or straight.

Mike

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Mike's Monitors!

As I said before I have used peat for years with few problems (really no problems definately no animal health related) Yes it is true that dry peat can be a little irritating, it doesn't burn my mucus membranes but different things affect people differently. I have found that treating the peat dihydrogen-oxide eliminates the effects of dry peat. You do not need a nurseryman's license to purchase dihydrogen-oxide and it is readily available if you look for it. You should consider it as it has several uses in horticulture as well as herpeteculture. Repeat applications of dihydrogen-oxide are necessary. Peat moss is not only a component in the soil in just about All of the cages I keep soil in but I also use it in the soil in most of the several hundred (not an exageration) fruit trees and surinam cherry seedlings I cuurently have growing in containers so I might know a little about soil. You are correct that sphaghnum is less harsh however it is every bit as acidic as regular peat if that is your concern. It is also more expensive than regular peat and a little difficult to obtain in large quantities (big bales) for the average person looking for soil additives. For someone looking to nuetralize ammonia odor in soil peat is a fine and inexpensive choice. I personally think that the original poster paid an excessive amount of money for a bad batch of soil and wants to try and fix it without spending another small fortune. I have gotten bad soil before (I've found everything from rubber gloves, to beer bottle tops to used cattle syringes in bags of soil.) so I understand such things. I also have plenty of plants that always need potting up but not everybody has that option.

Axe
I guess peat is not much of an issue to you. Especially when your finding things like cattle syringes and rubber gloves in your dirt! Where do you live? I'm in the Chicagoland area and have never seen such things...SCARRY!
Sounds like a lawsuit to me!
There is only one way I choose to neutralize a product that needs neutralizing...I eliminate it and find a good alternative.
There are plenty out there...as mentioned in my previous post.
Perhaps neutralizing is something commonly done in hortoculture.
Sphagnum is the same as peat (decomposed sphagnum) acidic wise, Sphagnum moss is not fine enough to become airbourne, but you already know this!
Nice talking with you and Brother be carefull when your mixing!
Mike
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Mike's Monitors!

I live close to where you used to live I think you posted that you lived in Merrit Island. I'm in Paisley (about halfway between Orlando and Ocala on the southern border of Ocala Natl. forest.) You would be amazed at the things I have found in bags of dirt over the years. It's not like I find them everyday and most of the Items are found in bags of composted cow manure (that I only use with plants not herps.) but things pop up in other bags as well. It has gotten worse in more recent times than in years past. Personally I agree with you I would have used that batch of soil for plants. However I think that poster was looking to not sink more money into his soil than he already had. No offense to him being new to things but I about died when he said he spent 40 bucks on 18 bags of soil. I would do something like that if I wanted my wife to kick me out of the house. I could get almost twice as much soil by combining the right ingredients for about the same amount of money and my wife knows it. My dogs are already in the house, I'd be in the Iguana cage. anyway cheers

Axe
In all of my years mixing substrate for reptiles I have never found things like those you mentioned...its a DAMN shame what us humans are doing to this Beautiful planet!!
Speaking of Beauty, Central Florida is just that!
Yes I lived on Merritt Island for 4 years, snorkeling in spring fed fresh water lakes was one of my favorite things to do.
When my friends and family would join me they would always ask "aren't you afraid of gators" I would tell them NAH I'm an excellent swimmer...most would say YOU CAN'T OUT SWIM A GATOR!
Your right I told em, BUT I can out swim YOU! LOL!!!
We did keep an EYE OUT for gators!
Take it easy Brother
Mike

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Mike's Monitors!

Jeff,
Just my 2 cents' worth: I agree with MikesMonitors that the smell is most likely coming from the chemical breakdown of the decomposition taking place.

I don't know of any way to stop it but you might can speed it up by spreading it thinly on a tarp for a week, month, or year.

Sounds like you might've learned a valuable, but costly, lesson. When I was searching for the right soil mix I bougt a bag of diferrent types and mixed them in a wheelbarrow. The less favorable results filled in a few pot holes in horse pastures & yard.

My soil is mostly a local dirt with a decent ratio of sand to limit hardening & make it more breathable.

Hang in there!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

I spent all night last night turning the soil in the tank. After a couple aerations, the heat pretty much all dissipated. And the smell smelled like, well...Dirt! I think this mixture might still have a chance, as there is no overwhelming smell and it looks pretty usable. I will let it sit for a day and see if it is still generating heat from compost breakdown. This is like a big science experiment. The good thing is all 18 bags of the top soil was only $40.

Could it have been that the heat was from the bags being stored in the sun and the fumes being trapped by seal bags? Quite possible, so you may be alright. I hope so.

Take care!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Jeff
$40 bucks, your getting off real easy!
Can I get an Amen?
Mike
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Mike's Monitors!

That's after the $150 I spent on Decomposed Granite before I deemed it too heavy to fill the whole tank with! But Amen to cheap top soil!

Jeff
Even at a buck ninety your getting off easy!
Not so much for the money end, I, WE, MOST have SHLEPPED tons of these materials...just to find out that they are not useable!

I really hope it works for you but chances are slim.

You have one Sav right?
If that is so I think your spinning your wheels Brother!
Straight cypress would be fine!

If you want to experiment with different substrate mixes use a large rubber made tub as a hide, this way SHLEPPIN and SPENDING is not so taxing on you.
Good luck.
Mike

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Mike's Monitors!

hey Mike, are these recent laying pics you are posting? are you having success with the Peachies? that would be fantastic!

btw, did you get my email about using your pics for our trough FAQ?
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Robyn
That clutch was laid in September of this year Brother. I also have video of the courtship, copulation, egg laying and back filling her nest....cool stuff!
They are still incubating and look great!
I have two females cycling at the moment and one of my males is deffinately on the job.

What ever you need from me Brother, just ask!
You have ALWAYS been good to me, and all I would ask for is a mention.
I have not gotten any emails from you lately, I'll keep an eye out for it...HAHAHAHA
Mike

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Mike's Monitors!