Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Wondering what a normal growth rate is for M.E.Phayrei? ie.. Weight and shell dimensions per year. Also I've read several conflicting articles on size and weight. I've read that they will attain maximum weights of anywhere from 60-100lbs... That's a lot of range. I am aware that the Burmese Brown.. M.E.Emys is smaller and their specs were also given in most situations. I've read that the shell size will max out at 16" all the way to 24"..Again inconsistent.. Anyone have good examples of mature adult weights and shell sizes? I have not found any really good photos of a large mature Phayrei next to a human either which can really help put things into perspective.

I've read that they are fast growers but am curious to know exactly what that means. I'm hoping that there might be a growth chart available... Vic???...

Thanks for any help/info!!
-Kory

I don't know if this is helpful or not. I have Emys emys and I track weight once per month.
6 months old 90 gms (3 oz)
12 months old 210 gms (7 oz)
18 months old 465 (15 oz)
24 months old 887 (29 oz)

So I figure he about doubles in weight every 6 months. None of my other torts are doing that except one of my leopards.
Tom

I could only help on the answer for M.emys emys as I only have those in my collection

That size range is due to the male max out at about the lower range size and female of the species max out at the upper range ie . M.emys emys Male max size about 18 inches on average while the Female max out at 24 inches

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What a nice pic!! Chunky fella or gal...

So the females get larger in both M.E.Emys and Phayrei? Is this
also true for all tortoises? I would assume it has to do with needing more room for eggs???

On average how territorial are Phayrei? Do males tolerate other males or do they fight. My reason for asking is that I am looking into possibly expanding my setup in the near future. When do the territorial behaviours usually kick in..2-3-10 years?

Thanks!
-Kory

Thats a Guy in the pic He was 14 inch when that was taken a few years back !! He is about 17 inches SCL now

From the many M.emys emys I have encountered ( wild or people's collection ) The male max out smaller then Female But I will leave it to other more experienced breeder in this 2 species to answer you !!! ( I only have 10 years experience working with them )

Mine get along well in the non breeding part of the year

I seperated them into all male , all female group when they are not breeding or female not laying !!

But this species ( M.emys emys ) are not as aggressive as some other species ie . I.elongata ( their fight will draw blood in many cases )

Cheers
SAM
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So many questions,to few answers!The truth is no ones knows the correct answers.There has not been enough comperative published work to answer all these questions,we are simply still in the anecdotal stage of these inquires.BUT things are looking up.Their is a study going on now in Thailand that is going to blow away all known published papers and books on Manouria.Male /female size,weight in the wild,clutch size,wild diet,population dynamics,etc are just now being undertaken in a Scientific format.In captivity I have learned that emys emys lay a lot more eggs than published.Some writings say 30,ive had 60 in one clutch.phayrei has been said to have near a hundred eggs but published accounts very around 50ish.Ive had phayrei lay 38 one year and 60 another.Ive had hatchlings from the same clutch reach variable weights over many years with the same diet and environment.I have some emys emys yearlings that are so small its freeky!I keep all the freeky stuff for myself just to see what the future brings,like maybe a six lb female laying eggs!!!I have found that emys emys,can take cooler temps.than the ever get in the wild with no ill effects...? Prepared for globel cooling! LOL. Keeping weight and demention records is a very good thing,you will learn alot about your animals.I hate to tell ya,but the more you know you will find the less you know!Manouria is still in its infantcy when it comes to fully understanding them.DEFY DESTINY...breed Asian turtles and tortoises,they need our help. Vic Defyingdestiny.org

Thanks for all of the input/help/info. I am really looking forward to hearing more about the studies you are talking about Vic. When might that information be available, or if it is available where can one read it?

Out of curiosity... How much does that fine Brown tortoise weigh that is eating the banana, how about the two Black torts that are getting busy.

I'm really being a bit anal about this because I've never seen an adult Black or Brown tort in person. The pics I've seen on the net just blow me away.

Thanks again!
-Kory

...at least the naughty stand-up guy is

...>>how about the two Black torts that are getting busy.

The Blacks and Browns are breeding every time it rains.I can hear the male growning 400ft.away.On a "good day"I can stand on my back porch and see and hear three pairs gett'in nasty.On a real good day i,ve had two females lay eggs.The best day is when a huge clutch hatches out.....ahhh miller time.Vic

The ones breeding are Browns or M.e.emys.You can see the pictoral scutes of the"giver"in the pic.In most cases the pictoral scutes on the plastrom do not meet at the midline and are usely less than half way from it."There are exceptions"Phayrei meat at the midline or almost meat,again most of the time.The study is in progress and not in print.Here are some pics of phayrei.An adult and a pectoral shot,along with the emys emys breeders again.Did you check out the web site ? Vic

I should have paid closer attention to the scutes... My bad! I have visited defying destiny, and really like the site. I would like to see some more close up and high resolution images of the tortoises. Maybe some info for setting up cages and pens with some photo reference.... Just my 2 cents. Overall it is a very clean and easy to use site! Most of the info that I have found was through the links that are listed on defying destiny! I also ran across a very nice series of photos but the writing is in German... I think.

Vic, there is an image of you with two tortoises on the natural history section of defying destiny... Is the larger tortoise a male or female? I am also guessing that it is a Phayrei..

Thanks!
-Kory

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The ones breeding are Browns or M.e.emys.You can see the pictoral scutes of the"giver"in the pic.In most cases the pictoral scutes on the plastrom do not meet at the midline and are usely less than half way from it."There are exceptions" Phayrei meat at the midline or almost meat,again most of the time.The study is in progress and not in print.Here are some pics of phayrei. An adult and a pectoral shot,along with the emys emys breeders again.Did you check out the web site ? Vic

The big one is the female,shes 80lbs now,a phayrei.Come on over and shoot some High-def pics.Vic

Vic!

Wow! 80lbs. I can't wait until my little fella gets that big! I would love to come by and take some Hi-Def pics, but I live in Los Angeles. However, my sister lives in Georgia, and I may visit her next summer at which time, I would love to stop by and maybe pick up another Phayrei... Direct from the breeder I am planning a possible trip to visit the Everglades. I've always wanted to see that part of the country. Correct me if I am wrong, but you are in St. Augustine? How many hours is that from Atlanta roughly?

I recently purchased a really nice Hi-Def DVD camcorder which takes beautiful stills. I am not sure if you are being serious or not, and I hope that you didn't take anything in my last post as negative, or as a put down. I did not intend it that way. I really like your site, it is really the reason that I decided to get a Phayrei instead of a Sulcata or other commonly kept type!

On another note, you had mentioned to me a few months back to include sweet potato in my Phayrei's diet. How much should I offer him, or how often? He loves the taters, and when he smells them he just goes nuts! He will eat and eat and eat! I dice up lots of other things and mash it all up, but don't want to over do it.

-Kory

Beside sweet potato ( I boiled mine before mashing up ) I feed Taro / Yam as well , even the Taro / Yam stalk get eaten as well One of their natural food that are available in supermarket !!!
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That guy eating the Banana is about 8-9 kg when that pic taken , He is about 12 kg when weigh around June this year
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