Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So, I got my new beardie. Before hand I never saw any pictures of her. Her owner said she was 1.5 years old, So I assumed that she would be about the same size as my boy (he's 11 months old and 18 inches long) When we got to her house and I saw her beardie, my mouth dropped open! She is so small!! She's about 11 inches long and 6 1/2 of that is her tail.

I don't understand how she can be 1 and a half years old and only be 1/4th of his size! Her owner semed to be taking very good care of her. She said she ate almost everything that was put in front of her (greens included). Currently she's in burmtion, as is my boy. They gave me her cage, too. A 10 gallon is what she's been living in.

So, could she be a Rankin dragon? (Or Lawson's dragon) whatever they're called. Could she just be very small? Her owner said that maybe mine was a german giant. I'm pretty sure he's normal, though. At what age do dragons stop growing?

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Sorry about all the questions.
(and of course I haven't put them together as was the plan. She's still in her old cage)
Thanks!
Emily
I have more pictures, that show their size comparison better...they'll come soon

She is not a rankins or lawsons dragon. In fact she looks under weight as well. Though she may have eaten everything fed to her, that doesn't mean she was fed enough to provide proper nutrition and give her all the nutrients she needs to grow properly. The fact she was housed in a 10 gal cage all her life is another reason she didn't thrive as well as she could.

Personally I will send her back and get a refund.
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PHLdyPayne

How on earth could you send that sweet lil thing back????

>>She is not a rankins or lawsons dragon. In fact she looks under weight as well. Though she may have eaten everything fed to her, that doesn't mean she was fed enough to provide proper nutrition and give her all the nutrients she needs to grow properly. The fact she was housed in a 10 gal cage all her life is another reason she didn't thrive as well as she could.
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>>Personally I will send her back and get a refund.
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>>PHLdyPayne

I would think that if she was not properly cared for by her old owners then if would be better for me to keep her. She didn't cost very much anyways. And she's very friendly.

I believe you when you say she's not a Rankins, but how do you know? What's the difference besides size?

Also, if she is now fed properly (if is is indeed the reason that she's so small)will she continue to grow? Or will she always be the size she is now?

Thanks for your help!

I'm not sure why the pictures come out so big...

Rankin's dragons have a different pattern and reduced head spines. With the second picture you can really see she has not been cared properly. You can see her hip bones, her tail and legs are nearly just skin and bones.

Feeding her properly will at the very least allow her to bulk up. She could also gain some length too as she isn't that old yet.

Like BDLvr suggests, I definitely will get her out of that 10 gal tank. A baby bearded shouldn't even be in one of those. Worse comes to worse, put her into a 100 qt sterlite or clear rubbermaid container with a clamp light fixture for the basking area and an under cabinet florescent fixture (with the plastic cover and the bulb it comes with removed and replaced by a UVB light instead). You can mount it to a length of wood that stretches over the top of the rubbermaid cage. Not a perfect setup but a good and pretty cheap temporary one. Just make sure the basking light 'hood' doesn't touch the sides of the cage as it can melt it if it gets hot enough.

I used one of these tubs for my bearded dragon till she was big enough to move into the large adult cage. It didn't melt with a 125 watt flood light in it, but it was in a large hooded fixture which may have helped diffuse the heat. Just keep a regular eye on the plastic for any warping or distortions. Also, if you smell burning plastic, definitely get the dragon out of there. If you have roaming cats, dogs or kids, this setup may not be ideal. Too much risk an animal can knock the basking light into the container or against the side of the cage, or just jumping inside and terrorizing or worse, the dragon.
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PHLdyPayne

If she has been living in a 10 gal tank then it's almost certain that she has not had a proper basking temperature. It's difficult to provide a 100F spot in a small tank without overheating the whole tank which likely would have killed her. The tank was probably too cool and whatever she consumed was just not turned into growth. I also think that she looks thin and small for her age. I have taken in stunted reptiles and once they are given the proper environment they do "catch up" providing there is nothing else healthwise going on with them.

I agree with T.B. The 10 Gallon tank is the problem. In a small tank is impossible to have temperature separation so it is either too hot or too cool. I would first get a larger tank right away.

You mentioned she was brumating now. That concerns me. Brumation should be at cooler temps. to slow metabolism. In a 10 gal. is she hiding because it's too hot in there? Or is she sleeping/inactive because it's too cool? In an enclosure with proper temps. you'd have a better idea of her status. I would discourage her from brumating if possible until you can at least get a fecal done.

I was sent to pick up a rescue in the beginning of September. The mother raved for 5 minutes about what great care her son had taken care of the dragon. In real life I took him straight to the U of PA Vet hospital, then later to my regular vet. Now he has been living with a semi-retired reptile vet for the last month and a half because they took such good care of him. lol.

I agree with LdyPayne, she is not a Lawson's. Her body build is too large. Borderview Bearded Dragons has a Pogona Identification key.

So, if I feed her right, she will catch up and get bigger? is this correct?

Okay, so tell me if this is bad or not...
Yesterday I took them both our and put them in a cardboard box to see if there was any chance at all they could get along even with the size difference. For the first five minutes she raced around the box and jumped, trying to get out, landinga few times on his head. He couldn't have cared less. He didn't move a muscle the whole time. Later he did bite her once the back of the neck, but only for a moment then he let go and she continued her "play".

Their current set up is that I put her ten gallon cage inside of his. She stays in her cage at night and, during the day, only when I'm there to watch or near to hear if there are problems, I let her out and she basks in his cage, sometimes digging under a rock. For the most part he ignores her. Twice he has bitten her. Neither time it was serious. Once on the leg/foot, and once on the tail. The only thing I can think of is that she may be so small that he thinks she might be food. However, if hasn't happened again, and she waves at him all the time.

I don't think she is burmating like her owner said, or maybe the move kicked her our of it. She seems to be very active. I offered her greens once and she didn't eat them, but she has no trouble eating crickets, and she loves mealworms.

I have another cage, about a 30-40 gallon one that I could use if you think she shouldn't ever be in his cage, I'd just have to get a light for it.

So let me know what you think and I'm sorry for the long post.
But thanks for all your help!
Emily

I would never keep a dragon with another dragon that bites. The risk is way to high that you will come home and one of the dragons will be maimed or dead.

In my opinion she will grow. Maybe only get to about 16 or 17" but will fill out. I personally like it when the female is larger than the male when putting strangers together.

If it was me I'd wait 6 months and then consider my options based on the size difference at the time. I've never seen any pair I've ever put together bite each other on the tail or foot. But there are many dragons out there missing feet and tails. Just a thought.

All right, just one last question...

She has been very active and is digging alot. Is it possible that, even though she is thin and not in the best of health, she may have eggs inside? Or is she too young for this to start yet?

If this is the case, would a large dish full of damp sand help? Or is there something better than sand to use?

She is mostly digging under the rock in the cage, and she's at it alot.

Otherwise, thanks for all the advise! I'll be seeing about getting another UVB light and get her set up in the bigger cage.

Hmmm. Difficult question.

It's very hard to say for sure without either of us knowing more information. If she was not with a male before eggs would be infertile and impossible to feel. I have no luck with feeling for fertile eggs either though. lol. I am very skeptical about her being gravid at this time of year but it is far from being unheard of.

If she's eating, then she doesn't want to lay eggs. Dragons generally stop eating or at least have a significant noticable reduction in their eating prior to laying eggs.

I wish I knew what she weighed.

The other 2 options for digging are that she wants to brumate or it is too hot in her cage and she is trying to find a cooler place.

I'm not sure if the dish of sand will help but it wouldn't hurt if you just want to give her something to make a mess with. lol.

I suggest you keep them apart completely. She is too small and too undernourished to even consider breeding, must less exposing your male to any possible pathogens she may be carrying.

Get her out of that 10 gal tank and into a proper sized tank so she have have proper conditions to maximize her health. Keep her away from the male completely, there will be plenty of time to introduce them when she's healthy and has had a chance to grow.

Personally I wouldn't even consider breeding her at all this coming season, instead concentrate on getting her eating properly and let her fill out and grow as much as she is able to at this age.

Get a fecal done as soon as you can, to make sure she doesn't have parasites, a general vet examination would be a good ideal too, to make sure she doesn't have any other health issues.
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PHLdyPayne

PHLdyPayne-I'm not planning on breeding them at all. She was just going to be a companion for him, I'm aware that she most likely will be bred if she stays in with him, but wont she lay eggs no matter what, anyway? I don't have an incubator anyway.

BDlvr-she weighs 81.5 grams, and for reference is about 11 inches long. What would the ideal weight be for her?

She is eating well, she even eats her greens now! Well, she dosn't actually like the green ones, she prefers the fruits so far, but we're working on it.

At this size, is it okay to have her on loose substrate? Before she was on wood shavings (I took her off of those right away) with cut up egg cartons to climb on.

All your help is much appreciated!
Emily