Reptile & Amphibian Forums

...how likely?

One thing concerns me with the new BRB acquisitions (“Count me in too…” thread listed below) is the fact the pair were housed together in the LPS. I would think there is some possibility that the female could be gravid.
My experience with Neotropical and Tropical reptiles is they often do not need to cycle to be fertile and can breed year round.

If the story I was told of the male snake is to be believed, that he was lost in the store for two years, only to show up a couple weeks ago once a large female was present, then this adds to the possibility. Perhaps her presence (particularly if she was ovulating) encouraged him to cruse more, leading to his capture. Once he was captured, he was added to the female's enclosure.

What experience do members of these forums have with BRBs breeding without cycling? I know that Taiwan Beauties will and in fact mine have several times (to the point that I don't even bother to cycle them). I have even heard of it in Sub-tropical species such as a corn snake… but has anyone bred Rainbows this way?

For the questions below, I have read through my copy of Ross and Marzec’s, Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boas. I need experienced keepers to fill in a couple blanks.

Next question: How obvious is a pregnancy in BRBs and how soon is it apparent? The last thing I would want to do is to prep the female for cooling in the middle of a gestation… (I have a 4-6 weeks before this may or may not happen.)

Because she was housed with the male for the past 3 weeks, I will be palpating on a regular basis and will be watching for some more obvious signs (inverted basking, off-feed, etc.)

Last question: How long is gestation? Ross and Marzec list it as 4-8 months. Anyone care to narrow this down a bit? What is typical in your experiences?

I have loads of questions as I get the best plan laid out for the care of these snakes. I appreciate any and all replies.

Female:

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Later,
Paul E. Turley

Paul,

I have found that BRBs do not need to be thermocycled by the keeper to reproduce. However, I've noticed that if I didn't manipulate the temperatures, my breeders cylcle themselves. Often times, this time of year, males will move off the warms spots in their cages and refuse food. Soon, the females will begin to develop follicles and they will behave the same way.

I think pregnancy is fairly obvious if you know what signs to look for. Watch for swelling in the lower 1/3 of the female's body. This indicates follicle development. Often times, females will refuse food during follicle development. At some point, the female will ovulate. this shows up much the same way it does in Green tree pythons, a huge swelling that lasts 24 - 48 hours and then reduces. At this point, if she has been copulating with a male, she is likely to be pregnant. She will stop hanging out at the cool end of her enclosure. Pregnant BRBs will spend just about the entire gestation sitting quietly in the warm end of the cage. You can palp the developing embryos but there's really no need to. If you lift the animal into the air, hloding her by the upper part of her body, letting the lower part dangle, you will notice a very "lumpy" appearance along her belly about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way down. In my experience, females usually don't start lying on their sides until the latter parts of gestation.

This past season, Dave Colling and I managed to pin some more exact numbers to the length of gestation. Gravid BRBs will go through a post-ovulatory shed and give birth 105 to 130 days later. The range of days seems to be linked to the female's body temperature during gestation. I kept my gravid females between 84 and 86° F, Dave kept his at 80°F ( I think), hence longer gestations for his animals. His all went over 125 days. Mine were all in the 105 - 110 day range.

If you've got more questions, bring 'em on. By the way, I wish everyone the best with this year's breeding season. I think I'm going to sit this one out so I can focus more on my chondros. Wish me a little luck O.K.
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Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Mike,

Good luck with the GTP's. If you get a chance, post some pics here, those are beautiful snakes.

Thanks,
Ed

>>
>>If you've got more questions, bring 'em on. By the way, I wish everyone the best with this year's breeding season. I think I'm going to sit this one out so I can focus more on my chondros. Wish me a little luck O.K.
>>-----
>>Mike Lockwood
>>www.tooscaley.com

Mike,
Thank you for the great response. Nothing like getting all your questions answered at one time.
I have kept reptiles (mostly snakes) for quite some time now (most of my adult life) while reading your reply, I couldn't help saying to myself, "I thought as much..." or "I would think so..." but it is tremendous help to hear it from someone with first hand experience with the animals you are keeping/learning about.

Right now, she isn't big in any given area, she's just big... I'll have to get a scale with a higher rating soon (mine tops out at 5lbs).

BTW: I also absolutely enjoyed browsing your site. Top notch work, not just the animals featured, but also how you presented them. Really a great looking site.

Thank you again,
Sincerely,
Paul E. Turley

One key point IMO that Mike already touched on is feeding. My gravid females will almost completely go off feeding while gravid. Even the ones that will eat only eat rarely and only smallish meals. So key question back to you, how's her appetite?
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
24.36 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I just fed them for the first time tonight. They had both eaten at the store last Wednesday so it's a bit early .
Both were offered FT sm. adult rats. (thawed in warm water.)

The male was soaking when I teased him out of the water. He hit fairly vigorously, constricted for some time but then abandoned his prey.

The female was on the warm end of the cage and took NO teasing. She hit it hard, constricted briefly then ate hers without hesitation.

I'll have to keep an eye on her for a while just to be sure. I'll post updates when appropriate.

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Later,
Paul E. Turley

Not totally conclusive by itself, but NOT the actions of a gravid female!!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
24.36 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats