Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm tempted to purchase one of those Florida/ornate mixes posted in the classifieds. Can someone please comment on the viability of such breeding? Does anyone have pictures, or can post links to pictures, of true adult box turtles of mixed origins (any combo)? I'd be interested in hearing testimony about their appearance, longevity, and the like.

Some purists can get quite heated about this, it seems, so please keep this all in perspective. Someone has obviously succeeded in breeding this group, and I am only interested in hearing what experiences people have had with such animals.

The mixed box turtles that I have seen always seem to be less attractive than the “pure” bred animals. I have two, a three-toed/eastern mix, and a three toed ornate (possibly) Florida mix – both are females. They act/behave the same as any other box turtle. And I should say that I was given/adopted them, because none of the other turtle keepers in the area wanted them, which is quite different with “pure” bred turtles. One of these days, I will take pictures. The three toed/ornate or Florida, is rather pretty, she is totally black, with little spots on here shell. The three toed / eastern is rather non-descript, with a brownish blackish shell, with no markings, and her head is black/brown – no markings either. I am sure both would be disappointed with my description, so please don’t tell.

Now in regards to the “Some purists can get quite heated about this” statement, I think I was the only person that ever called my self a purist, and at no point in the debate, was I heated or angry – that’s the problem with posting on forums, your happy out going and gregarious personalities can be defeated by intelligent point counter point debates on a rather cold medium.

Anyways, back to the subject, the box turtles for sale will probably require the same care and attention as any other box turtle.

P.S. your first name isn't Jet by any chance, like Jet Fuel - ha ha.

My eastern/three-toed mixes are also nondescript and quite boring looking. They are interesting in that all three of them look the same this way, and are different from my others (they are a few years old and the others of single subspecies that hatched at the same time are looking like their own species now, some three-toed and some eastern, while these are staying bland).

They are acting exactly like either the three-toeds or the easterns (my three-toed young are a bit more secretive than my easterns, these guys hover in between), and I don't doubt that they'll have normal lives.

One thing to note, though, is that eastern/three-toed mixes are not the same thing as a florida/ornate. A florida/ornate is a mix of two separate species, a hybrid, which means they are typically sterile and have short life spans and can be prone to mutations. Easterns and three-toeds are just subspecies of terrapenne carolina, and so they do not make hybrids but crosses. Crosses between subspecies are nearly always fertile and I don't know of any differences in health between them and normal single sub-species breeding.

I guess there are two ways of approaching the discussion.

1) you could be just looking for a pet. In this case there's really no reason to avoid mixxes. Perhaps if you want to discourage it from happening you can vote with your purchase. They would likely be healthy (although in this case it is two species mixing, by the claim in the ad, which means hybrids, which means sterile and usually short-lived, but box turtle species seem to be odd in not obeying our human-made scientific rules for species, so who knows). One issue might be that these two species occupy very different climates and landscapes in nature. What would this hybrid offspring be best suited to? A florida climate with lots of rainy forest? A drier midwest climate with winters and some plains areas?

2) you could have ideas of wanting to breed the eventual adults. In this case you should probably avoid hybrids or mixxes. If you represent them honestly for sale (any offspring of them later) you cannot name a species, only a mix and lengthy parental lineage. I know my own eastern/three-toed accidents were not very popular. I keep them and enjoy them, but they will not be bred and will live alone once they reach sexual maturity (I hope they are all the same sex, that would make it easier). People seem to (in the vast majority) be most interested in a particular species, or at least to be able to know the specific species they buy.

I'm no purist, but I now keep my boxie species separated (not only for that reason, but also so I can make sure to control the parentage of each clutch, since my PrettyBoy's babies are very popular and I'd like to have more to give out).

I would ask you, as a boxie lover and person who might eventually buy boxies again some day, PLEASE represent your mixxes fairly as well as any offspring if you take this route. I would not like to end up accidentally getting an animal that is not what I expected one day, it would be especially impactful in my constructive breeding plans.