Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a 1.5 YO male Sav. About a month ago, I noticed a dark patch on the back of his neck. It was darker scales and the regular scales around it were unattache (to the darker scales), kind of like a shed. I thought it was an incomplete shed, so I kept his cage humid to aid the shed. Weeks later, still not shed, the dark scales were still visible and no better. Today I handled him and it looks like the dark scales are coming off, but it is flesh underneath! I am calling a vet tomorrow to get him in. Is this an effect of a burn? The scales were very dry and are flaking off. I soaked him and used Zoo-med's Repti Wound-Healing Aid. He is eating fine and moving around and everything. I recently switched from a 150W Repti-Sun bulb to a 45W halogen. His basking spot is 120 degrees, although it was probably hotter with the old bulb.

Any help? I feel like I have more confidence in your all's opinion than a vet. What can i do to help prevent infection? the burn treatment is jojoba oil and tea tree oil. Please help

Take that halogen and look at it. If it has a clear pentagon center, take it and throw it at the wall. Those with clear centers are very prone to burning monitors. Flood lamps should have all fluted lens(widens the angle of the lite).

Some brands went to these clear centers(combination flood/spot) Without changing the labels. Phillips is one of the brands.

I now use mostly incandesent floods, as they never burn. And are less costly. And lastly they work just fine.

Cheers

not positive if I am correct or understand the problem totally whether you know it is a burn or not. Because if I am correct, and someone correct me if I am not, isnt a darker black color also possible a like fungus or bacteria or what not?

Tom

Never be positive in the first place, this is the internet, without pics and the animals is only guessing. NEVER EVER take anything you recieve here as absolute, again without having any axcess to the the problem, you cannot be absolute.

With that said, my responce is self explaining. If the poster finds a clear center in their new halogen bulb, then they found a common cause of burns. So even if that is not a burn, it will be if they keep using those clear centered floods bulb. On the otherhand, if the poster is using a halogen spot, they need to throw that against the wall too. As they will burn also.

You do remember, the poster said, I will be going to the vet, tomorrow. So if its something other then the a burn, the vet will cover that. Cheers

The damage to the skin was done (if it was a burn) from the Repti-Sun bulb. Does anyone have experience with burns? Will it blacken the skin and then eventually flake off to just flesh? Also, will the skin/scales grow back with the proper vet medicine/topical treatments?

Another thing, my halogenb bulbs were purchased from Pro Exotics. I am not sure if they have a clear center, but if Robyn and Chad have been using these bulbs and recommend it, is it fair to say these bulbs are safe and effective from the proper distance?

Those bulbs pictured are fine. They look like GE (General Electric) floods and generally 45W are used in a bank of 2 to 3. How are you measuring your basking temperatures?

I have a temp gun I use to hit every angle of his cage, and a digital thermometer with probe that I use as well. He has a vet visit tomorrow, and hopefully his new enclosure will be complete and temped out by this weekend.

If your monitors healthy, then they heal better if left to themselves. Vets and all their stuff sometimes make it worse(all their scrapping and such.

I have had burns from those bulbs I mentioned that were up to 1/4 the dorsal area of the monitor and healed without problem.

But it will never look the same. It will leave a scar.

Those bulbs from PE are the better ones, but are still dangerous. I should know, I am the one who turned PE and others on to halogen for monitors.

The deal is this, 45 watt halogens put out the most useable heat for the electricity used OF ANY BULB OUT THERE. But that also means they put out lots of heat. Which means burns can happen. Since I switched to incandesent bulbs, I have NEVER had another burn on a monitor. EVEN IF THEY SIT ON THEM. But, they use more electricity per amount of heat produced. So its up to you.

If used properly, those bulbs from PE are great, but I just got tired of burned monitors, so I switched to a crappier bulb(and way cheaper)

The other problem with those halogen bulbs are, they are CHEAP CHEAP, a little tap on the cage and the bulbs go out. Or a power outage and out they go. And they are expensive to replace. Of course, if you have hundreds of bulbs like I do, I think about such thing, but if you have a couple bulbs, its should not be a concern. Cheers

FR,
Can you describe the way the burn looks and what happens to the skin as they start to heal. It looks to me like the burned skin is dead and just flaking off, but underneath is bare flesh. I am guessing the skin will regrow once the old dead skin is removed.

You just discribed it, I don't need to.

If you have no experience, then its most likely best you take it to a vet.

There is some controversy as to what are good treatments(for burns), even amoungst vets. But I imagine any approach is better then no experience.

Just remember, a healthy monitor has no problem, even with fairly large burns. Cheers

Considering this is my first experience with a health problem, I think a vet visit is essential.

I have another question about lighting. I can get a basking spot of 125 degrees from one 45W halogen in my new tank, with the light about a foot from the substrate. The problem is, about 2 feet away from that, the temp is only 70 degrees. I know people use banks of halogens. Is this to increase the basking spot area, or to increase the heat in the basking area?

At a foot away a 45W halogen will not burn a monitor. It becomes dangerous once your within 6 inches.

Banks of lites are to increase the area heated. One of the problems with monitors is, they do not know how to heat a small area then move to heat another, like many snakes do. If the area is small and they are on the cool side, they will often sit until they become burned.

Which means, you can have a great working setup, then winter sets in and drops the lower temps in the cage, but does not change the higher temps(basking area), this is a situation that can cause burns.

Cheers

In other words Jeff, you use a bank of several low-wattage lights to have a large area to bask under (meaning the whole lizard can heat up - not just a section of his back). If the basking area is tiny vs. the size of the lizard and the cage is relatively cool, he can inadvertantly burn a small portion of his back trying to heat himself up. In nature, the sun does not heat up a tiny 6" area leaving the rest of the area 70*F. The lizards don't understand this and can burn themselves it seems.

Krusty
You say "in nature the Sun does not heat up a tiny 6" area leaving the rest of the area 70*F. The lizards don't understand this and can burn themselves it seems". (A well noted and understood simple captivity problem to fix)

This is exactly why I really wish folk with lots of field experience could post here without bashing or being bashed! (Deleting this important information hurts us, me)

And here's why.
I am sure the "scenario" you posted happens in nature DAILY! (Minus the 70*F) Ambient temps under a dense jungle canopy are higher. Perhaps this IS the answer!

The problem is the Monitors living under this dense canopy probably encounter 6" holes and may not be able to find any basking spots much bigger. Maybe they do find larger areas (helpfull field research goes here)

Why do these Monitors not get burned by the SUN?
Is it the Monitors or is it the Sun?

The problem I think is human error, wrong bulbs, not a large enough basking area, captivity problems...our Monitors problems!
We as hobbiests have figured out how to prevent these "man made" burns in captivity. BUT why are there no "Monitor made" burns in the wild???? (under a dence jungle canopy)

My post is not to disrespect you, I have ALOT of respect for you, your Krustiness!
My post is meant to be answered by someone with real field research experience with Monitors under a dence canopy.

Perhaps a Field Research sub-forum should be in place, so we could cross reference captivity and nature.
Mike
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Mike's Monitors!

The tropics have surprisingly stable temperatures from winter to summer. The big difference is the amount of rain from monsoonal to dry seasons. For example, the southern lowland coast of PNG is quoted as having air temperature ranges from 22*C to 30*C (that's approx. 73*F to 86*F) [source:http://www.new-agri.co.uk/99-1/countryp.html]. I don't know about your house Mike, but mine can go from 70*F to 85*F pretty easily here in Florida if it were not for A/C and heat. Up in Chicago? .... ugghh! Maybe MCota has been running around Thailand with his PE-1 temp gun and will chime in with his readings. (Robyn smiles at inadvertant ad )

Krusty
I keep my Reptile room temps at 80 degrees through out the year!
Wait till you see what I have coming in next week!
Mike
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Mike's Monitors!

... if you say "hatchling V. glauerti" I'm never speaking to you again Mike. LOL I've about given up.

Anything else and I'm excited for you but want pictures posted.

-Krusty

Hi Mike, again they can post all they want. But again, this topic can be very questionable and very controversial.

For instance, snakes are very good at regional heating. That is, only heating part of their body at a time. I have tons of pics if this in nature.

Some lizards are also very good at this, like a close relative of varanids, the gilas, I also have tons of pics of them regional heating as well. Monitors do this in nature as well.

ALso boas and pythons are very good at regional heating, but they too burn under the same conditions as monitors. They burn from lacking a gradient from cool to the extreme hot spot. So its not the temps that are too low that are the problem, but the immediate placement into a very hot area, with no intermediate heating.

A wide basking area does in effect cure the problem as it heats the greater mass of the animal evenly. Also not allowing those lower temps also is, in effect a cure.

So, about the arguing, we could each take a different stance and be right in our own views and argue until the sun sets and raises again. But it will not matter as its what we do IN OUR CAGES that will effect both the cure and the understanding.

For instance, your nice cages. If you drop the low temps below sixty, then your monitors may burn themselves in the exact same set up they have grown up in.

Just a thought, their increased mass plays an important part in conjunction with the cooler temps.

If I may add, in nature, it would be difficult to find a spot that was 150F after a cold night. What causes it in captivity is the lack of a middle ground, its cold, then hot, in nature, they can graduate up to a hot spot, on their own accord.

An example is, with RETES boards, we never see burns as they can increase their temps by moving up the layers, a little at a time. Even with narrow basking areas of 200F.

With larger monitors, this is often omitted. And yes, I know from experience.

So its not really about "what" they do in nature, but instead, "how" they do it, and more specificially how they do it in our non-natural setups.(consider, a lite bulb of any kind is not natural to monitors).

The reality is, Its not really about their natural behaviors. Its about their un-natural behaviors. Cheers

jojojo
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Mike's Monitors!

Just wanted to let you all know that the injury was indeed a burn. The vet was very helpful and knowledgable and provided enough Silvadene cream for a full recovery as well as antibiotics to give to the mice either orally or topically. He should be good as new within the next month with a minor scar.

On that note, I have the top for my new cage. It is wood framed acrylic on both sides (hinges in middle) with a screen section for the bank of 3 lights on the hot side. I still would like to add a vent to the cold side, just trying to figure out how to attach it to the acrylic.