Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was at Prehistoric Pets the other day buying some feeders and they had baby corns labeled Bloodred/Licorice. I inquired about what they will look like when they are adults and I was told they are red with white on the sides. Has anyone heard of this morph or have pics of an adult?

Paul
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0.0.4 Destert Tortoise
1.0 Sulcata
0.0.2 Three Toed Box Turtles
3.3 Western Hognose
1.0 Albino Western Hognose
1.0 Corn Snake
0.1 Anery Corn
0.0.1 Green Tree Frog

>>I was at Prehistoric Pets the other day buying some feeders and they had baby corns labeled Bloodred/Licorice. I inquired about what they will look like when they are adults and I was told they are red with white on the sides. Has anyone heard of this morph or have pics of an adult?
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>>Paul
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>>0.0.4 Destert Tortoise
>>1.0 Sulcata
>>0.0.2 Three Toed Box Turtles
>>3.3 Western Hognose
>>1.0 Albino Western Hognose
>>1.0 Corn Snake
>>0.1 Anery Corn
>>0.0.1 Green Tree Frog

Actually it's NOT a morph of cornsnake at all!
it is a hybrid. A cross between a bloodred cornsnake, and a licorice( aka whitesided/whitewall Black Ratsnake).

They wanted you to THINK that it was something special!
when in reality, it's just another cross someone decided to throw together. They have alot of that type of thing at that store.

Get a cool looking "pure" strain of some type, and don't fuel the production of MORE needless crosses that find their way into un-witting collections.....just my opinion,...but a rather GOOD one!

best regards, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Well I agree that misleading the genetics of sold animals is terrible but I do have to say that there would have been nothing wrong with selling them if they had labeled them correctly.

i.e. as corn x black rat or whatever the cross was and prefferably with the percentages listed.

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat

Just like we use 2.5.7 for sexs. We need to have a standard for morph combos and hybrids. "X" usually means a hybrid. But come up with something simple and logical.

And I hate to pin this on certain people as they have no obligation, but if the big guys use it and stick to it, the trend will be followed.

Good things travel down hill too!
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.herpzilla.com

I have to agree label it properly and there is no problem. Or you could just play the denial card like the corn purists do with their ULTRA hybrids
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Dan S.
Crotalus & Company-- Captive Bred Reptiles
Venom-Center -- Venomous Community
Wisconsin Reptile Community
Hybrid Herps-- Hybrid Community

if the label said bloodred/licorice.. then that is labeling it correctly. a bloodred cornsnake x a licorice rat or am i missing something here.....
by the way i dont agree with labeling hybrids as pure either, i sell and breed hybrids and pure snakes i labl them as such, but this to me was labeled correctly
adam jeffery
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"CARLOS MENCIA FOR EL PRESIDENTE"
hybrid breeders association
1.1 puebladurans
1.1 sinacorns
1.1 hypo corns
1.1 crimson corns
1.1 striped ghosts
1.1 kenyan sand boas
1.1 mbk
1.1 albino corns
1.1 childrens python
1.3 ghost corns
2.2 butter(both females motley)
1.0 snow corns
1.0 jurassic milk
1.0 house snake
0.1 anery pueblacorn
0.1 bloodred
0.1 eastern milk (eatin pinks)
0.1 striped albino corn
0.1 albino nelsons
0.1 anery motley
0.1 normal corn het hypo,anery
0.1 hypo tang hondo
0.1 rosy boa

>>if the label said bloodred/licorice.. then that is labeling it correctly. a bloodred cornsnake x a licorice rat or am i missing something here.....
>>by the way i dont agree with labeling hybrids as pure either, i sell and breed hybrids and pure snakes i labl them as such, but this to me was labeled correctly
>>adam jeffery
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Yeah it pretty much seemed obvious to me.
When I saw bloodred/licorice the first thing that came to my mind was this snake was the result of a bloodred X licorice rat mix.
The name to me doesn't "read" as if they are trying to pass them off as pure corns.

Just a quick question to add to the discussion....

emroyi/corn crosses....intergrade or hybrid?
I want your opinions...I know how they are classified, I'm not looking for the textbook answer I'm looking for thoughts and opinions.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

I also think they were labeled correctly too!

And also just wanted the poster to KNOW what it was.

As to the other question, I consider emoryi x guttata an intergrade. But that's not to say they WON'T be, and AREN'T misrepresented all the time, every one that knows anything about this game can't deny that!, that's a fact.

Do they/can they also get into where they aren't particularly wanted in other collections??.....I think the answer would again be, an absolute..... YES!....but regardless of that, and what I think of hybrids, I still believe them to be intergrades because of both animal's ranges overlapping one another, thus being a natural intergrade zone.

I guess they can just as well be called a cross too, as that means just that, but not a hybrid at all......not in my eyes! anyway.

later dude! ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

The original poster asked "anyone heard of this MORPH before?"

They said MORPH!......as this thread continued, it got a little misunderstood in the process. So I explained it is NOT a morph of cornsnake. Some readers just missed a few key words in the post, that's all.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

It's mad science Jimmy.lol

>>>>if the label said bloodred/licorice.. then that is labeling it correctly. a bloodred cornsnake x a licorice rat or am i missing something here.....
>>>>by the way i dont agree with labeling hybrids as pure either, i sell and breed hybrids and pure snakes i labl them as such, but this to me was labeled correctly
>>>>adam jeffery
>>>>-----
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yeah it pretty much seemed obvious to me.
>>When I saw bloodred/licorice the first thing that came to my mind was this snake was the result of a bloodred X licorice rat mix.
>>The name to me doesn't "read" as if they are trying to pass them off as pure corns.
>>
>>
>>Just a quick question to add to the discussion....
>>
>>emroyi/corn crosses....intergrade or hybrid?
>>I want your opinions...I know how they are classified, I'm not looking for the textbook answer I'm looking for thoughts and opinions.
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>>Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
>>"Resistance is futile"
>>Jimmy Johnson
>>(Draybar)
>> Draybars Snakes
>>
>>_____
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If lead paint is so deadly why do they make it so delicious?

>>>>emroyi/corn crosses....intergrade or hybrid?

Hybrid. Whether they are specific of subspecific crosses, they are hybrids. Period. "Intergrade" ONLY refers to naturally occuring subspecific crosses, and NOT ones "forced" in captivity. Hybrid is a cross between two unlike parents. Hence, subspecific crosses fit the definition of "hybrid."

If you catch a kingsnake west of Dallas, it is a naturally occuring intergrade. If you breed a south Texas locality kingsnake to a Louisiana locality kingsnake, it is a hybrid. Unless we change the definition of "intergrade" - which would just be a foolish thing to attempt (lol) - that's how I will always use the terms.

KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven

it got misenterpreted down the line!....read original post, then read my last post!

that again clarifies the point of the whole thread! it's crystal
clear!

"DO-TA-DOO"!!!!good buddy!

later, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

I agree. Hybrid snakes labeled as "pure" are being sold to unsuspecting people every day. It doesn't matter if you're a fan of hybrids or not - it's dishonest.

Tim

Third Eye

I thought these popped up unexpectedly and are not hybrids? I could swear one of the most reputable Corn breeders I know has them and they're called Pied Sided Bloodreds? This snake was very high dollar? I don't see how one would be in a pet shop already unless it is something different? What was the one in the shop proced at???? Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

They were priced at $199

Tom,....

I know the ones you're talking about, but pied-sided animals are something totally different than the blood/Licorice thing.

The pied-sided animals have very distinct voids/patches of red
(sort of like Balls), only it seems to be isolated just to the sides, not a faded entire white side as in the other hybrid animal being talked about.

I think the originator of that was "D.S.", is that the reputable breeder you were referring to?, if so,...then yes, he (and the snake) is legit!.

take care!, ~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

listed at $2000 dollars!!!!!

I guess that says it all!.....know what I mean?

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

voids/patches of "WHITE"!,...not RED......sorry for the stupid typo!!

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Don's Pied Sided Bloods are breathtaking animals. Nothing short of amazing. They are pure corns & Don is one of the best guys in the industry (you and I are both know him)....

I have a feeling that these bloodred corn X licorice black rats are nothing more some someones attempts to make THEIR VERSION of a Pied sided bloodred (a cheap and short cut nasty hybrid way). Prehistoric Pets description to an Unknowing customer could be misleading if they were just getting into corns and thought that they were pure corns... How many NEW hobbyists know what a Licorice black rat is? I think a more appropriate label (not even using scientific names) would read: Bloodred Cornsnake X Licorice Black Ratsnake.

Just my two cents...

Even better, instead of Licorice ....since this name is not often used....White Sided Black Rat would have been the best choice.
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

"Licorice" isn't that uncommon of a morph name in ratsnakes. Matter of fact, it was a VERY common in the mid-90's. Us that have been around a few years remember seeing them being sold at most herp shows - large or small. All ratsnake morphs seem to have decreased in popularity as they have become "older," though. Well, except for leucistic Texas ratsnakes, of course. Anyway, Licorice ratsnakes aren't the topic here.

Bloodred licorice are almost definitely NOT a pure corn. Period. Don's pied-sided bloodreds are as pure as any cornsnake can be. I've seen the grandmother that started this line (had her in my hands, actually) and I've seen images of Walter Smith's male that bred her. I've also held all of her offspring that Don kept to raise up to ultimately produce the pied-sideds. Plus, I've got a mess of the pied-sideds here at my place. I have seen nothing to indicate they are anything but pure bloodred cornsnakes. Nothing.

These have practically zero chance of being the same thing as those licorice ones in a wholesaler / pet store. I hope this clears up some of the confusion some readers of this thread might have had. Don's is unrelated to THAT line, and I suspect that line - from what I have seen written in the partial posts I bothered to read - at Prehistoric Pets is just another junk hybrid with an intentionally misleading name to trick newbies into spending good money on a misrepresented snake.

KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven

Tim use to blast me a bit on hybrids. I do find the idea fascinating. But I do recall Jurassic Park too. And I have to say Tim has strong feeling on the topic. And I'm glad he does.

Just because we can does not mean we should. I HAVE NOT bought any hybrids in for our shop even though I have had the means to get them very easily.

I'll be honest, I'm not sure what I would do in the future. But clearly honestly is most important. For many reasons.

A few months ago a snake came in called a variable? From a well known person. Then owner told me "you can get anything out of this" I said HOLY ****, a hybrid. That night I researched a bit and found out about the variable king snake and 3 phases of tricolor a leonis and a black.

Deep inside I felt good it was not a hybrid.
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Thanks for reading.
Big Tom

www.herpzilla.com

Thayeri(A.K.A. "variable" Kings are fun and nice. I have a pair myself that I'm looking forward to breeding in a few years. Gotta love a grab bag of babies in a single species of snake.

Also in addition to the three main phases there are several colorations ranging from white to yellow to orange to green to grey to black depending on whether you are looking at foreground/background/borders or lack of borders. Not to mention individuals which are sort of in between phases, normally half between leonis and MSP.

Sean.
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1.1 BRB
1.1 Triple Het TPRS's
1.1 Amel Bloodred Corns
0.1 Abbott Okeetee Corn
0.1 Blizzard Bloodred Corn
1.1 Thayeri Kingsnakes
0.1 Reeve's Turtle
0.2 Amstaff's
1.0 Pudytat