Reptile & Amphibian Forums

With all the discussion about Bcc's being more gastro-sensitive, what do they normally eat in the wild?
I'm talking about big adult Basins. Steer me to some good literature. I also, subscribe to the theory of their tempermental gut, by the way.
jsc

of the most respected true localtiy keepers, Gus Rentfro, Rio Bravo Reptiles.

"Often, as a keeper you will also discover that red-tails will generally be more demanding captives. Cage temperatures are more critical and stress is also more of a concern. Red-tails can be more susceptible to digestive disorders and other ailments. Frequently, they are intolerant of overfeeding and will on average grow and mature more slowly. They can be the biggest of boas but will have smaller litters (of larger young). Don't be discouraged; the competent keeper who knows how to keep red-tails will avoid most problems. And, more captive produced red-tails are now in the market, these babies are more adaptive and easier to keep. "

Here's the link:
http://www.riobravoreptiles.com/care_raisingboas.htm

Thanks, Joe
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

again, right of Gus's care sheets for True Redtails

""How often do I feed my boas?"
Inexplicably, there still exists a lot of confusion about how much and how often snakes should be fed. Feed a growing red-tail as often as it will take food but wait until all signs of the previous feeding have gone. In other words, don't feed it if it is still bloated with the last meal. Depending upon the temperature cycle it is in and the size of the prey item this can take from 6-15 days. If unsure, wait another day or two. It is a practical impossibility to underfeed a normal healthy boa kept in the proper conditions. Many people find it entirely effortless to overfeed theirs! The single most frequently identifiable factor in premature death, poor fertility and other problems with captive boa, especially red-tails, is obesity resulting from over feeding.

"How big a meal is right for my boa?"
If the food item is not big enough to make a noticeable lump in the snake, feed something larger. If your snake is unable to crawl or coil normally because of the size of it's distended belly after feeding, you have fed a meal too large. Generally, the diameter of your boa at the widest part of the body is about the same as the largest meal you should offer. But no rule is applicable to all animals at all times. An obvious exception to this simple size rule would be a gravid female bloated with babies, if it were to be fed a gigantic meal as large as it’s distended body pre-mature birth or even death might result. There are other exceptions. No rule, guide or schedule is anything other than a starting point. You have to observe your animals and apply what you learn to their care.

"Do I feed my growing Red-tail more in Summer and less in Winter?"
If you closely consider the above information, you will see that it is self-adjusting to most all changes in the snake's environment and condition.

Overfeeding, feeding too frequently and feeding prey items too large can often sicken or even kill a red-tail. As will excessively high or low temps during digestion. Apparently a cycle of overfeeding sets up a condition of sensitivity or imbalance in the boa's digestive tract. Contents from the lower digestive tract may also get into the stomach during movement or handling if the meals are too large or too frequent. Regurgitation exacerbates this condition. It has also been suggested that sensitivity to domestic rodent hair sometimes develops in red-tails. The first sign of either of these conditions is usually regurgitation but can also be listlessness, refusal of food, restlessness or any combination of those symptoms. In addition to the risk of sickness or death, overfed, power-fed and overweight adult red-tails have repeatedly shown diminished breeding behavior and fertility. Properly conditioned animals are a must for breeding. I need also say that firm muscular red-tails and other boas demonstrating varied scale sizes, textures and iridescence are objects of splendid beauty far more wonderful than the simple spectacle of a huge fat boa.

"How long will it take for my Red-tails to mature?"
Three and one-half to six years if you use the guide outlined above. Subspecies is a factor as is also locality of origin.

“What will be the mature size of my red-tail?”
Size in Boa is a result of genetics and husbandry. In captivity husbandry is the dominant factor. Any Boa kept in an eternal Summer condition with frequent feedings of high-quality, high-fat foods will exceed it's average normal size potential both in length and mass. It is also known that rapid growth and excess weight in developing red-tails predisposes them to poor reproductive success as adults. Age is the primary factor in sexual maturity in Boa constrictor ssp., not size or weight. Note that maturity is properly defined as the ability to produce viable young without complication, not simply breeding and making slugs or a few young. As a reference only here are the minimum length and mass observations of female boa successfully breeding here at Rio Bravo Reptiles. Weights were taken as close to ovulation as was practical. I hope this table of information gives you some hint as to the extent of the genetic and behavioral variation in Boa c. ssp.!"
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

I know Joe. I have read that before. I am familliar with those passages. Like I said. I'm a believer in the fact that Bcc's have sensitive stomaches. I believe that's what I said.
My question was "does anyone know anything about their diet in the wild?"
jsc

not directed to you man, I read what you said, just supplying info ...
lots of questions on feeding lately, from other forum members.
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Thats a pretty vague question. You're covering a million and one different niches and ecosystems, and you're not going to have a perfect answer. That being said, studies on Boas in general have shown that Arboreal Rats make up the bulk of thier diet on the mainlands. Island Boas usually feed on Birds, but both being opportunists, will eat any mammal/repile they can find/fit down thier gullet.

My question was not vague. I said large adult Basins. That narrrows it down to one species/subspecies, one geo niche.
Nothing about Bolivians, Argentines, Ortoni, Imperitor, Sonoran, Antillian,... Get it?

Define "Basins". Then ask yourself how many Rivers, Lakes, Islands, Deltas, Wetlands, Drylands, Highlands, and other niches occur in the Amazon "Basin". Again, assuming you want a cut and dry answer, your question was pretty vague. Seriously, I know of no studies that have focused on prey items of BCC in the Northern Sheild. The only studies have been on Island Boas off Central America. So in short, the only way for you to get a difinitive answer is to go and do the reasearch yourself.

I did ask to be directed to any literature on the subject. It's your opinion there is nothing published out there. Thank you for your opinion.
Yes. "Shield" would be another descriptive term for subject range. See reply from snakes at sunset. That's a pretty good answer. I do hope to do studies on the subject in the field and publish.
jsc

The point was is that there is no current in-depth literature about BCC prey items encountered in the Northern Sheild. However, I know, just like Mike, by first hand conversations, that populations found outside the big cities and human populations are more apt to be feeding the many Arboreal rat species in SA. Big adult Iguanas are also favored.

Thanks for the post.
jsc

"Feeding schedules for captive snakes vary with the age, species, size, condition and specific requirements of the individual. Generally speaking, pet snakes are usually fed once every 1- 2 weeks. Juveniles and adults for which a relatively rapid growth rate is desired can be fed more frequently, providing that environmental temperatures are warm enough to allow complete and thorough digestion. Older snakes are usually fed less frequently, once every 3-6 weeks. The number of prey animals offered at each feeding is determined by the same factors discussed above with regard to the frequency of feeding.

Overfeeding must be avoided because of the risk of obesity. Too-frequent feedings and allowing a captive snake to consume multiple prey animals at each feeding encourages rapid growth. It also leads to obesity in older animals. The relative difficulties in procuring food limits this phenomenon in the wild.

Here's the link for that info:
http://www.petshealth.com/dr_library/snakecare.html
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

It's not about what they eat; It's more about husbandry errors and keepers that don't want to acknowledge/accept that

makes me think of the parents of obese children, that when asked, would say something like:

Oh I just feel bad not giving them as much as they want

or

I want them to be happy

or

I don't want to 'neglect' him

or

but he always seems to look for more

or

I don't see how he could be happy with just a small (normal) meal

and that is one of the leading issues in this country!
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Forgot to say that out of the few BCC I've kept ( and other SA subspecies ), some were incredibly sensitive, while others were just about bullet proof. And contrary to popular belief, you'd be surprised at how much you can feed them if they have access to a high ( above 120 degrees ) basking spot, while allowed to have access to lower thermogradients. They will use it when they need it; But back to the subject at hand, the inconsistancies with keeping these guys is more about husbandry errors and keepers not being able to read thier animals, than the animals themselves.

"the inconsistancies with keeping these guys is more about husbandry errors and keepers not being able to read thier animals, than the animals themselves."

Sounds alot like what I was trying to express in my response to the 'DOCILE' post a couple threads down.

Everybody/animal is different, and responds differently to different stimuli/conditions.

I totally agree.

Thanks again, Joe
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

This part was under 'Feeding Frequency'

"Large bodied constrictors and vipers, such as Burmese pythons or diamondback rattlesnakes have a higher risk of becoming obese in captivity as a result of their slower metabolic rates. They should be fed once every 4-6 weeks, compared to desert tortoises and box turtles should be fed smaller amounts of concentrated meals daily. "

Here's the link:
http://www.angelfire.com/al/repticare2/page8.html
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Please reread my question. I'm not an idiot. Please don't jump to conclusions and think you know what I need to know regardless of my question.
If you have nothing to add, as to the diet of Boa c. constrictors in the wild, I suggest you beat someone else over the head with your genius.
jsc

we're discussing/providing info for many forum members that post here.
sorry if you're having a bad day, you seem to take everything so personally. take it easy.
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

Like I said, if you have nothing to ad to the discussion degarding my post, I suggest you create your own thread on the topic you wish to discuss.
I don't consider taking that personally. I consider that effective communication, Dude.
jsc

Joe, what are you smokin? He had a pretty specific question and you're rambling on, posting quotes by other people, and it's ALL irrelevant to the question. If you want to address other feeding issues, make your own thread, or reply to threads asking for the info you're quoting! If YOU have NO CLUE to the diets of WILD BCC, just don't reply. Did you see my answer to the original question? That's right, because I HAVE NO CLUE! See, it's easy, nobody knows it all!

Must've been some good stuff since I made the mistake of reading his question as 'feeding habits of BCC in the wild' as opposed to just the actual 'diet' of wild BCC.

I guess you've never made a mistake.

You must've been smoking some of the same if you took my replies to mean I thought I 'knew it all'. Just like you said, no one does.

Funny, almost makes me think you are sore at me for some reason, when in fact we've never done business or even spoken.

Have a good one.
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

I'm not "sore at you" at all. I don't think your multiple replies dealt with wild BCC feeding habits or diet. Rather, they all seemed to point toward diets/habits in captivity. I could be "sore" at you, if I cared, but I really don't. I did see your reply a while back stating your opinion on Super Motleys, and your little jab at me for stating the color of my supers as babies. I said they were silver/grey, remember? Funny thing is, I saw one of Pete's YEARLINGS and it(a PURE C.A. Super motley) was still GREY! I believe you were giving your opinion on whether they were patternLESS or patternFULL. Like I said, I don't care, but that would be the only reason I'd have to be "sore" at you, if I were. I just think your multiple replies did not pertain to the question, and you excused it a couple times as replying for the rest of the forum. The only time we have "spoken" outside of this forum was when you e-mailed me regarding trades for motleys. I'm still not "sore" at you, it just seemed like you were on a tangent/soap box. It sort of seemed like you were trying to belittle jsrick?!?! Take care!

belittle him by providing articles and info (not my own, mind you) on what I thought he was asking about? come on Paul.

Seems like it's more than that.

I didn't even remember that motley comment until you just mentioned it again. The way you put it, it does sound like something I would've said, but not to put you or motelys down in any way.

I'm invested in Motleys too. I like motleys, I like patternless snakes, I would also like it if it were a solid colored/patterned snake.

I love colors... whether the supermotley is patternless or pattern'full', either way it would still be very useful in making solid colored snakes. Either way, I like them. Atleast enough to spend several thousand dollars on them!

Not sure why you took that comment in a negative way. I'm sure it wasn't even a jab, so to speak, but just a comment. I don't like to be belittled, so I make it a point not to do so to others.
I thought this board was to express thoughts, opinions, etc. - for beginners thru experts. If it were only to say something that were guaranteed 100% fact, there probably wouldn't be many posts.

Your buddy and I were fine before this thread.

I tried to defend a young lady who seemed to be getting clobbered by him, with no let up, no explanation. I thought that was way out of line. I did it in a way that did not single anyone out. We even had friendly conversation outside this forum before and after.

Strange though how after that happened, his posts seem to be coming from a different person. Different writing, thinking, different attitude all together.

For you to jab at me like that still seems like you are harboring more, unless you really took that motley comment the wrong way. If so, I apologize.

I have enough problems... I don't need anymore.

If that's all it was, I hope we can put this behind us, if there was more, please let me know. Whatever it is, i'm sure we can work it out.

Thanks, Joe

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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

"Your buddy and I were fine before this thread."

Who are you talking about??? I have no idea who Jscrick is, if that's who you're referring too????? You lost me there. As far as the super comment, it was something like..."it doesn't help matters when some people talk about what color they are when they're first born" and I was the only person that had done this, so it was clearly aimed at me. Like I said though, it really doesn't bother me, but that would be the only possible thing I'd have reason to be "sore" about. Well, I'm not even worried about this thread to tell you the truth. The info didn't seem to pertain to the question, the multiple posts could be taken a few ways....I'm searching for all sorts of info to help you out OR look how much info I can come up with. And see what I did, I made a mistake (so yes, I DO make them...OFTEN, lol) and posted a reply. Late, tired, going to bed, take care!

From personal conversations with trappers/exporters in Suriname and Guyana they have been found to eat ANYTHING.
From anoles/plica plica lizards to pacas, agoutis, four eye possums, monkeys of all types, nestling birds both arboreal and ground nesters, and one regurged upon capture a cane toad.
Now, this is from first hand experiences as they actually trap these animals and observe some behaviors. When found with meals, they notice to be in shade. But not limited to as they have also found them to be in the sun. Now how to translate these and more observations to captivity and reproduce these factors/conditions would be doable but as always more info is needed. That is where experience comes in and trial and error.

Thanks for the good info. Monkeys and aguitis came to mind, but I wasn't sure how to spell, so I left it off my querry.
jsc

Check out Clifford Pope's book, The Giant Snakes. That should have a summary of published info up to around 1961.

Paul Hollander

Thanks. I may still have that book. I'll look.
jsc