Reptile & Amphibian Forums

When purchasing a ball python at an specific weight, how much leeway do you consider acceptable from that advertised weight?

For example -- You bought an '06 albino female advertised at 800g. She arrives, and she's only 600g. Is this an acceptable margin or is this too much of a discrepancy? What about when it comes to adult females? If you bought an adult female at 3100g, but she arrives and is only 2800g?
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

Dont know how others feel. But if i paid for a 800 gram snake. And got a 600 gram snake id be upset. I personally think 50 grams would be acceptable.750 grams instead of 800.But a 200gram difference is way too much.As far as older snakes.If i paid for a 3000 gram snake. And got a 2800 gram snake id be ok. After all 2800 grams is still a adult and breedable.
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kevin
36 pythons and boas and 4 lizards

The difference in weight that I would consider acceptable is the weight of an appropriate sized meal for that snake. The advertised weight may have been the weight of the snake after it had just taken a meal.
So, if an 800 gram snake is eating 45 gram weaned rats and a 3100 gram snake is eating 200-300 gram large rats, those are the weight differences that I would accept.
I wouldn't be happy about it......but I would just let it slide.
If someone ships a 600 gram snake that they had advertised at 800 grams, they either need a new scale or need to be smacked for purposely misrepresenting the weight of the animal. Of course, the seller better make good on some type of compensation too!!!!!!!!!!

Brian

Some good replies. Personally, I try to post a weight that I know is under their real weight or calculate the weight of the last meal. For example, if my 800 gram snake just at a 50 gram rat, I'm likely to advertise the snake at 700-725 grams. In the end, everyone is happy - customer gets what they asked for, or better and I please my customer.

If I purchased an advertised 800 gram snake and it arrived at 600, I would be very concerned and would contact the seller. You may have been mislead. If you are being mislead, no telling how many others are.

Karma - What goes around, comes around
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

If a snake defecates it can lose around 100 grams. Likewise if it eats a rat or two it will gain some.
200 grams seems like a big difference on a 600 gram snake. On a 3000 gram snake 200 grams is no big deal.
Just my 2 cents.

Dave

>>If a snake defecates it can lose around 100 grams. Likewise if it eats a rat or two it will gain some.
>>200 grams seems like a big difference on a 600 gram snake. On a 3000 gram snake 200 grams is no big deal.
>>Just my 2 cents.
>>
>>Dave
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I've had this problem recently, Jen. I personally think that, even though a 3100 gram female compared to a 2800 gram female is still breedable, you still should have got what you paid for and recieved what was advertised.

I recently bought an advertised "breedable," "1100gram" female pastel and got an 840gram snake in the mail. It is possible that she could have stuffed her with food for the photo in the advertisement, but it is false advertisement and bad business.

Jmartin's idea for advertising is excellent. I wish everyone did that.

However, I don't know if I'd let it slide, because I think a 600 gram female to an 800 gram female is a bigger deal than a 3100gram to a 2800gram. Returning it may be more trouble than it's worth, so I'd simply just take pictures of your snake in a scale and send them back and see what they have to say about the size difference. I would imagin that they all could deffinately eat a 200-300 gram meal, so that could explain a difference in weight, but I do not believe it should be advertised as such.

I think if you paid money out of your pocket for an animal, you better get that animal.
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

Anything more than a 10% difference of the advertised weight is just plain wrong and deceitful. Someone already mentioned "KARMA".

In this case, I bought a 3100g female and a 2600g female -- and recieved a 2800g female and a 2400g female. It is pretty safe to assume that they must have been full of food when the seller weighed them, but this should have been taken into account by him and the weights altered to allow for it. The only reason I bought the bigger one, is because I specifically wanted a 3000 gram female. Had she been correctly advertised at 2800, I wouldn't have bought her -- at least not for the price I paid. I paid one specific price for a 3100g female, and a specific lower price for a 2600g female. I got neither.

They're beautiful, yes, in great condition, yes, and breedable, yes...so the weights shouldn't be that big of a deal I guess. But I just feel annoyed that I paid for something specifically and didn't get it.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

....why did you specifically want a 3000gm female vs. a 2800gm female. I am just curious because this seems like an insignificant difference to me. Having said that, I have not bred ball pythons before so there may be something that I am missing. In the other species I have bred, though, a 200gm difference would have been negiligable in terms of outcome.

Please don't take this the wrong way as I am not challenging your concerns over an animal being misrepresented from a marketing stand point. I, too, would be upset if I wanted a specific animal, ordered it and then it was not what I ordered when it arrived. I am just curious about the 3000gm thing. Thanks for your time.

Rob

It has nothing to do with production rates or anything -- I just was specifically looking for one.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

.

Was it from a well known breeder with a good reputation or was it from an unknown?

I would think an unknown since I've never heard of him before.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

I would think you would be more likely to get an honest weight on a snake from someone with a reputation at stake. Some fly by night reseller or someone with no reputation to lose is not risking much when they screw someone over. To me it is worth more to have the reassurance you get when buying from someone that has been around, has a website/public presence and some kind of reputation in the reptile community. It also lends credibility to the animals you produce/sell when you can refer people back to a known breeder as the source of your animals parents.

One of Ralphs banners says that "a ball python is only as good as the breeder". While he obviously is refering to himself in his ad, this will hold true for any good breeder with a good reputation. Buy from someone who has been around and is praised for their animals and service. They may ask more for their animals but it is probably because they have invested not just their money but their heart and back into their projects and their reputation. Just my opinion.

For me, this would apply to hets and morphs -- not normal females. I don't buy my hets and morphs from just anyone -- but normals are just normals. These animals are healthy, very well fed and in great condition. It's just that the weights weren't as advertised. That doesn't affect the quality of the offspring I produce from them.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

I see what you mean as far as reselling or showing lineage but as you have experienced, you paid less from someone with no reputation and you got less then what was expected. At one time I bought a normal female from an unknown. Guess what happened? She was 400 grams shy. I filed a complaint with paypal but since he gave them a tracking number showing that I received a package, that was all the proof they required for him to prove that he held up his end of the deal and I was told there was nothing more that they would do. I could have made my credit card company refund my money and then paypal would have cancelled my account and I wouldn't be able to use their service anymore. This was a couple years ago and I don't know if they still have that policy but I don't plan on tempting fate. That was the only lesson I needed. I will never buy from anyone over the internet that has nothing to lose. I have read so many stories of other people getting completely screwed out of thousands that I feel lucky that I was only screwed out of 400 grams of ball python. Wether it is a normal or a platty, you should know who you are buying from if you want to get what was promised.

Maybe I just have too much faith in other lesser-knowns to be like me as a lesser-known -- honest, open, and providing animals that are exactly as I say they are. If for some reason they aren't, then I make it right. I would think others would be the same, but I'm slowly finding out they're not.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

I'd consider that enough difference to demand a partial refund.

I bought six snakes from an ad here, and collectively they were about 1500g under the advertised weight. The seller was an ass about it, but as soon as I filed a complaint with PayPal, he changed his tune and issued a partial refund.

If you paid via paypal, you should easily be able to get a partial refund from the seller. If you have no leverage against them, you may be out of luck.

I would certainly talk to the seller, maybe they're OK, and would gladly issue a partial refund over an unintentionally deceptive ad.

I e-mailed them, and this was their response:

"Hi Jen,Yes, they did both defecate shortly before beingshipped. It would have been impossible to weigh themon an empty stomache, they were taking a sm ratevery-other day in preperation for the breedingseason...in case they didn't sell! I did weigh theminbetween feedings,though. I wasn't trying to misleadanyone, just didn't want to stop feeding them up soclose to breeding season."

None of the above was mentioned anywhere in the ad -- the weights advertised were plainly put as being what they weigh. Nor would any buyer just assume that these girls were stuffed to the brim with a small rat every other day because that isn't exactly the norm. Now I wonder if they're still full of even more crap and will take a big dump and lose even more weight...
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors

big dumps from my monster girls probably don't weigh 100 grams normally?..........

.....I never weigh snakes nor defecates.......sorry.......but they aren't that big......even with the 6 ounces or more of liquid that comes along with it?....

........you people make me want a scale and a temp gun more and more everyday........

now they got me wanting to weigh giant tootsie rolls......

.
.
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This is where I place some stupid comment about the market situation...........

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.

>>now they got me wanting to weigh giant tootsie rolls......

Too funny!
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

roflmao
That is pretty hilarious. Had me laughing out loud all by myself. Keep it up.

Steve

you gotta figure.....I got a mouth like a whore sailer in a sewer.........and in here we gotta play nice and try and talk professional and all.....usually.......we do have 10 year olds in here believe it or not.........and some people really don't like using bad language......no matter what age.......I try and keep myself in check.......but it's easier to talk common speak than to use big scientific words......people look at me in the real non-snake world when I use words simple like defecates......

wonder how many would know what copraphagy meant.........even though some have seen it in a movie......

eeeeeewwwwwwwww.........

..........I've used the tootsie roll thingy before........

.....
.
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This is where I place some stupid comment about the market situation...........

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.

Not that I make a habit of measuring tootsie rolls but....

My biggest girl defecates the day after I weighed her so I set her back on the scale just out of curiosity....

She was nearly 200 grams lighter!!! So 2200 down to 2000 g overnight.

>"Hi Jen,Yes, they did both defecate shortly before
>beingshipped. It would have been impossible to weigh themon an
>empty stomache, they were taking a sm ratevery-other day in
>preperation for the breedingseason...in case they didn't sell!
>I did weigh theminbetween feedings,though. I wasn't trying to
>misleadanyone, just didn't want to stop feeding them up soclose
>to breeding season."

JEN! I DEFINITELY WOULD MAKE IT CLEAR IN RESPONSE TO THIS MESSAGE THAT YOU WOULD NOT HAVE BOUGHT THE SNAKE IF IT WAS BELOW 3000 GRAMS, AND BETWEEN THE TWO SNAKES YOU ORDERED, ITS A 400 GRAMS DIFFERENCE. I WOULD EXPLAIN THAT THOUGH HE MAY NOT HAVE INTENDED TO MISLEAD, HE DID. IT WAS FALSE ADVERTISEMENT. HE MAY FIND IT ANNOYING OR UNRULEY, BUT YOU ARE NOT WRONG. IF NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT IT, I WOULD MAKE IT CLEAR THAT YOU WILL NEVER BUY FROM HIM AGAIN.
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

I did. I explained to him that I was specifically after a 3000g female and paid the price under the advertisement that she was exactly that. But she wasn't -- and had I known that, I probably wouldn't have bought her. The combined missing weight could be the equivalent of 5 eggs -- and considering what I had planned to put to these girls, that's a lot to me.

To some people, breedable is breedable, and I totally get that -- but I'm specific in the animals that I want and if I buy something because I particularly want that weight, that's what I expect. I wasn't after 2500 gram females -- I only added the 2nd girl later because she was a good deal and it would save on shipping compared to buying a different larger female from another seller. My main purchase was the 3100g female.
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~* Jen *~

Pink Lady Constrictors