Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Can I keep a male and female together in a 40 gal. breeder as adults? Or do they have to be separated until breeding season?

Also, Can I keep two females together in my 40 gal. breeder?

Thanks for any/all help

>>Can I keep a male and female together in a 40 gal. breeder as adults? Or do they have to be separated until breeding season?
>>
>>Also, Can I keep two females together in my 40 gal. breeder?
>>
>>
>>Thanks for any/all help

I feel it is best to keep snakes separate.
I know a lot of people can and do keep multiple snakes together without problems. I just feel the possible drawbacks need to be expressed.
When a person gets the experience and knowledge of each individual snake in his care, and wants to try co-habitation, it is up to them. They just need to be careful and observant enough to see and understand the subtle signs of stress in their snakes.
There can be definite drawbacks in co-habitation.
If one snake becomes sick there is a very good likelihood the other/others will get sick as well.
It may also take a while (usually too long) to determine which one is the sick one.
If one regurgitates its food you won't know which one unless you happen to get lucky and see it.
If one has a problem stool you won't know which one. Once again one may have a problem and by the time you figure out which one the other/others could end up with the same problem.
Although this is only a slight possibility, it is still a possibility and has been know to happen... one snake could eat the other. Cannibalism can and does occur with corn snakes. The smell of a prey item could trigger one snake to eat the other. Or simple hunger accompanied by a ready food source could do the same. Although uncommon, it has happened and is a possibility.
Another possibility is unwanted pregnancy. A female may become gravid and you may not have the knowledge, desire or ability to incubate the eggs, care for the hatchlings and find homes for them. With hatchlings comes added responsibility.
A lot of people rationalize by saying, "I will just put two males or two females together". That can work but mistakes can be made, especially with hatchlings. You could easily end up with a male and female.
There is also a chance of a female breeding too young or too small and becoming egg-bound. Although uncommon, it is a possibility and can happen.
With multiple snakes in the same enclosure you could easily loose them all if there happens to be an avenue of escape. Instead of losing one you could loose two or more depending on how many you decide to place together.
With multiple snakes in an enclosure, one or all of them could be stressed by the presence of the others. Stress can cause a drop in appetite and other health problems as well.
People will put multiple snakes in an enclosure and ask why one isn't eating.
When they are told it is probably due to stress caused by the other snake, the response is almost always the same "they like each other, they are always under the same hide together". Well this probably just means "that" hide or area of the tank has the optimum conditions they are looking for.
Snakes do not LIKE each other or ENJOY each other’s company.
There is no capacity for snakes to "like" or "enjoy".
I have kept multiple snakes together, without problems, but have made a choice to keep them separate. There are NO good arguments as to why you SHOULD keep them together but there ARE several good arguments as to why you SHOULD NOT.
So, in my opinion, although people do it successfully I just don't think it is worth the risk.
If you decide to keep multiple snakes together, watch closely for any signs of appetite loss, shedding problems, regurgitation or “personality” changes. These could all be signs of stress.
You would also want to feed them in separate containers and give them an hour or so before putting them back together.
My 2 cents
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

>>>>Can I keep a male and female together in a 40 gal. breeder as adults? Or do they have to be separated until breeding season?
>>>>
>>>>Also, Can I keep two females together in my 40 gal. breeder?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Thanks for any/all help
>>
>>
>>
>>I feel it is best to keep snakes separate.
>>I know a lot of people can and do keep multiple snakes together without problems. I just feel the possible drawbacks need to be expressed.
>>When a person gets the experience and knowledge of each individual snake in his care, and wants to try co-habitation, it is up to them. They just need to be careful and observant enough to see and understand the subtle signs of stress in their snakes.
>>There can be definite drawbacks in co-habitation.
>>If one snake becomes sick there is a very good likelihood the other/others will get sick as well.
>>It may also take a while (usually too long) to determine which one is the sick one.
>>If one regurgitates its food you won't know which one unless you happen to get lucky and see it.
>>If one has a problem stool you won't know which one. Once again one may have a problem and by the time you figure out which one the other/others could end up with the same problem.
>>Although this is only a slight possibility, it is still a possibility and has been know to happen... one snake could eat the other. Cannibalism can and does occur with corn snakes. The smell of a prey item could trigger one snake to eat the other. Or simple hunger accompanied by a ready food source could do the same. Although uncommon, it has happened and is a possibility.
>>Another possibility is unwanted pregnancy. A female may become gravid and you may not have the knowledge, desire or ability to incubate the eggs, care for the hatchlings and find homes for them. With hatchlings comes added responsibility.
>>A lot of people rationalize by saying, "I will just put two males or two females together". That can work but mistakes can be made, especially with hatchlings. You could easily end up with a male and female.
>>There is also a chance of a female breeding too young or too small and becoming egg-bound. Although uncommon, it is a possibility and can happen.
>>With multiple snakes in the same enclosure you could easily loose them all if there happens to be an avenue of escape. Instead of losing one you could loose two or more depending on how many you decide to place together.
>>With multiple snakes in an enclosure, one or all of them could be stressed by the presence of the others. Stress can cause a drop in appetite and other health problems as well.
>>People will put multiple snakes in an enclosure and ask why one isn't eating.
>>When they are told it is probably due to stress caused by the other snake, the response is almost always the same "they like each other, they are always under the same hide together". Well this probably just means "that" hide or area of the tank has the optimum conditions they are looking for.
>>Snakes do not LIKE each other or ENJOY each other’s company.
>>There is no capacity for snakes to "like" or "enjoy".
>>I have kept multiple snakes together, without problems, but have made a choice to keep them separate. There are NO good arguments as to why you SHOULD keep them together but there ARE several good arguments as to why you SHOULD NOT.
>>So, in my opinion, although people do it successfully I just don't think it is worth the risk.
>>If you decide to keep multiple snakes together, watch closely for any signs of appetite loss, shedding problems, regurgitation or “personality” changes. These could all be signs of stress.
>>You would also want to feed them in separate containers and give them an hour or so before putting them back together.
>>My 2 cents
>>-----
>>Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
>>"Resistance is futile"
>>Jimmy Johnson
>>(Draybar)
>> Draybars Snakes
>>
>>_____

Wouldn't that be cool if we had a FAQ tab at the top? Then a poster could just click on it and get this really cool answer...LOL! You rox Dray -

TC

-----
Ratsnake Foundation

That would save SOOOOO much wasted time from CONSTANTLY having to type the same redundant answers to SO many posts!

That REALLY should be addressed somehow!

I think I might even type up a copy of some certain FAQS and put it in the photo gallery,....then just click on it as needed.

~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Jimmy, I couldn't have said it better if I tried!

I had a big argument not long ago with some guy that claimed snakes DO enjoy each others company!LOL

I think because he often saw his Brazilian Ranbows huddled together, he thought that they MUST enjoy "hangin'out" together!

What he forgot to realize, is the fact that most of the snakes in the same cage found the same area of the cage more optimum than the rest of it, so they were seen huddled together often because temps, etc... were more optimum there.

He wouldn't here ANY of this talk at ALL, and said that was just MY opinion. .......Well, yes it WAS just my opinion.
One that was made with ONLY 40 years of snake experience!

imagine that!

~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

hi i have been keeping snakes for over 35 years now. the one plus i have found about cohabitation is that when you handle these snakes they are nowhere near as stressed out and don't seem to mind that you are handeling them as much. on the other hand almost every snake that i have that is seperated vibrate their tails more. some even strike at you. all are allways on the move and try to escape from your hands while being handled. overall they are very stressed out from being handled. with all other things being equal food'temps'and handeling time this is one thing that i have noticed. and i think it is because the snakes that are being kept together are so used to having the other snakes allways touching them. that when they are being handled they are calmer and less stressed out. and i think make a better pet.this is the only thing that i think is a plus with cohabitation. but i agree with the other guys on all the other negitives of cohabitation

That I have also noticed that when two or more snakes are housed together. They become very accustomed to seeing and feeling movement around them, and do many times seem much less willing to get defensive.

But as you and Jimmy also stated, that's really about the only possible plus. All the other reasons NOT to, certainly outweigh the reasons for doing so. We all certainly agree on that.

best regards, ~Doug
-----
"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

glad iam not the only one who noticed this in corns.
thanks doug.
greg

>>hi i have been keeping snakes for over 35 years now. the one plus i have found about cohabitation is that when you handle these snakes they are nowhere near as stressed out and don't seem to mind that you are handeling them as much. on the other hand almost every snake that i have that is seperated vibrate their tails more. some even strike at you. all are allways on the move and try to escape from your hands while being handled. overall they are very stressed out from being handled. with all other things being equal food'temps'and handeling time this is one thing that i have noticed. and i think it is because the snakes that are being kept together are so used to having the other snakes allways touching them. that when they are being handled they are calmer and less stressed out. and i think make a better pet.this is the only thing that i think is a plus with cohabitation. but i agree with the other guys on all the other negitives of cohabitation>>

No reason why we couldn't have more than one answer to an FAQ. Usually there's two sides to every story.

On this forum we're dealing mostly with corn snakes, although I think it should be about Emory's Ratsnakes too, because they are so much alike and you have the creamsicles, plus the cinnamons and rootbeers. The corn snake (meaning all the above) is the most popular pet snake in the world. Not all snakes are treated so much like pets. Here the answers need be geared toward a "pet" snake.

As to more than one corn in a cage, I know some folks that keep multiple snakes together, including me at times. I'm looking at a pair of Emory's Ratsnakes right now that have been in a tank together for months because out of necessity I didn't have room for two tanks. They are yearlings now, however, and I need to separate them or they'll be breeding in the spring. Sometimes I'll put pairs together while they're brumating. A couple instances where togetherness is possible. But in general I agree with Draybar and many reasons can be given for keeping them separate.

Cheers -
Have a great weekend all -

Terry
-----
Ratsnake Foundation

I've noticed the exact opposite. In addition, I've noticed that snakes kept in smaller enclosures are less "edgy" than snakes kept in larger cages.

I've been keeping snakes for 35 years as well and have produced thousands of hatchlings. In addition, I have visited several top breeders and they all agree that co-habitation is not the healthiest way to keep corn snakes.

Tim

Third Eye

Thanks, everyone. Good community

i have about 100 hatchlings a year. i guess everyones bloodlines must act differently. because the ones that i spoke about earlier that i keep seperated more stressed,vibrate tails,sometimes strike at you, are kept in small containers.
greg

>>hi i have been keeping snakes for over 35 years now. the one plus i have found about cohabitation is that when you handle these snakes they are nowhere near as stressed out and don't seem to mind that you are handeling them as much. on the other hand almost every snake that i have that is seperated vibrate their tails more. some even strike at you. all are allways on the move and try to escape from your hands while being handled. overall they are very stressed out from being handled. with all other things being equal food'temps'and handeling time this is one thing that i have noticed. and i think it is because the snakes that are being kept together are so used to having the other snakes allways touching them. that when they are being handled they are calmer and less stressed out. and i think make a better pet.this is the only thing that i think is a plus with cohabitation. but i agree with the other guys on all the other negitives of cohabitation

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that is interesting. very good!

Back when I used to keep my snakes together I saw just the opposite. They seemed more defensive and less willing to be handled....BUT there is one reason that would definitely attribute to that behavior...the ones I kept together were wild caught black rat snakes....lol
They had attitudes to begin with...lol

I look at the reactions you are getting as more natural, so to me that would mean they are less stressed and more content (I hate using human terms) in single enclosures. They act more "natural"
I think stress can cause a more depressed or subdued attitude.
That is just from observation and deduction..I could be way off base here but that's just the way I've seen it.
Now, this doesn't mean overly aggressive or overly defensive snakes, there are other factors that need to be examined if that is the case but normal defensiveness and weariness, to me, indicates a nice healthy snake.
I have quite a few that show the "flight or fight" attitude when I first open their enclosures but they calm down quickly enough once they are handled.

-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

nice point made. i also noticed when i feed my corns the ones kept together take ft gentley from your hand right away and never refuse. when i try to feed the seperateted ones ft they vibrate their tails,strike at you , more stressed.i would say that more than half of them are to afraid to take ft from your hand.so i get fed up and just leave the ft in their cage so they can get it latter after they calm down of their fear of my big hand that was in their cage.lol
greg

oh one more thing i thought of if is.if the seperated corns are acting more like wild corns is this realy better? that would be like wanting your dog to act more like a wolf. i wouldn't want that.

>>oh one more thing i thought of if is.if the seperated corns are acting more like wild corns is this realy better? that would be like wanting your dog to act more like a wolf. i wouldn't want that.

I see your point but I mean more natural, in naturally alert, aware of their surroundings not more wild as intollerable of human contact. Slightly defensive is good. Overly aggresive is not.

Fine line I know...but there is a difference...lol
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

good point, but i still enjoy handeling my cohab snakes alot more than my seperates.
greg

Yes I do, year round. My adults (2 years old) raised together since hatched. Keep em together year round to conserve space and they still breed. Have about 15 (07) hatchlings kept together; just separate for feeding. My others are all kept separate (milks and bp's).

Mike