Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Finally got around to updating this article. I know it's way past time.

If you have edits for me or suggestions to add to it, please send them to me. It's been a while since I wrote it and there certainly could be something I missed.

The article

www.kingsnake.com/alterna/hatchlin.html

linked from the resource page - link titled "documents"

www.kingsnake.com/alterna/resource.html
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

Good info for sure!

Typo in the first para "remember".

One technique you didn't mention is "sight" or "movement" feeding response. Sometimes I've been successful holding a food item in front of a reluctant feeder then quickly dragging it past its head lightly brushing the neck and forward part of the snakes body. Sometimes this quick "movement" and light "brushing" will make the snake turn and grab the food item more out of reflex than scent I think. You can also use a switch and bate tactic. Hold a lizard in front of a reluctant feeder, wriggle it a little and when you have the snakes attention quickly switch to a F/T pinky using the "movement and brushing" technique. This technique has worked fairly often for me.

>>Good info for sure!
>>
>>Typo in the first para "remember".
>>
>>One technique you didn't mention is "sight" or "movement" feeding response. Sometimes I've been successful holding a food item in front of a reluctant feeder then quickly dragging it past its head lightly brushing the neck and forward part of the snakes body. Sometimes this quick "movement" and light "brushing" will make the snake turn and grab the food item more out of reflex than scent I think. You can also use a switch and bate tactic. Hold a lizard in front of a reluctant feeder, wriggle it a little and when you have the snakes attention quickly switch to a F/T pinky using the "movement and brushing" technique. This technique has worked fairly often for me.

Bate and switch... I have fed off some lizards using that myself, sometimes you re-re-re-retry it a few times and the snake wins when he makes that first move.

Oh well, at least it ate

Lance
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___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

I posted this in 2005 and forgot to include this text. Read the first paragraph.

forums.kingsnake.com/viewarch.php?id=867936,868910&key=2005
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

I've added some more text and fixed the typo
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

np

I dont realy have the patience to deal with all the tricks, so my reluctant feeders get mouse tails stuffed down their throats. This is the first year Ive tried it, but force feeding egg yolk seems to work well also. Ive got a couple greeri that have been getting tails and yolk since early Sep. There poop is very stinky, but they appear to be very healthy. I dont like fooling around while the snakes lose more and more precious fat reserves. Im not sure if there are any side effects to using yolk. Anyone else have any experience with this? To force it I use a blunt tip catheter attached to a 3cc syringe.

I too use a catheter, but I feed veal baby food and I use a 10 cc syringe, I think I am going to go up to a 20 cc, so I do not have to fill up as much. Each neonate that gets feed my concoction, gets about 3 cc each, some get slightly more.
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South Texas Herps

how long have you been doing this? How long does it take for them to swithch over? How are their stools?

I add 4ml of a dog supplement, called Canine Red Cell, I think it is made by premier pet or something like that, I find it at my local feed store, to one jar of veal baby food. Fecals seem fine, perhaps I am used to them, they take about 3-4 months, some less, and they switch over.
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South Texas Herps

I feed lizard parts with a scented pink chaser. A lizard leg will make two meals, just cut it off at each joint and a tail will make 2 or 3 meals. Offer a pinky feeder a lizard thigh and as soon as it finishes it, offer it a scented pink. Next time, offer it a pink with a small piece of lizard skin in it's mouth, next time a scented pink and the next time it should eat unscented. Worked for me this year in 8 of 9 babies that refused to take scented pinks on the first 2 or 3 tries.
Later
Rick

WOW.. If our non-herp friends knew some of the stuff that we do to get our critters feeding they would really think we are nuts!!

I have had the best success scenting with frozen lizards and geckos.. But, i have also had success washing pinks with ivory soap both prior to feeding non-scented pinks and prior to scenting pinks..

Also, a few years back i was having trouble getting some Red Bluff's feeding and John Fraser (i am almost positive it was John F.) told me to put my non-feeders in deli cups and take them for a ride in my car.. Then as soon as you get them home feed them in the deli cups.. I have no idea why this works and i know it sounds a bit silly. but, i tried it a couple of times and had some success... Has anyone else ever tried this??

~ Mike Russo

I tried that a few years ago, but the circumstances were a little different... The "snake" was my infant daughter, the "deli cup" was a carseat, and the "not eating problem" was not sleeping. The ride in the car thing worked GREAT!

Seriously though, never would have even begun to think that this gimmick would work for problem feeders, Interesting.
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Joe

It worked for me a couple times. I bought a pair of rosy at a local show once and since they looked a little thin I fed a f/t pink as soon as we got home. But, the next week neither would take the f/t pink. Next week same, having heard about the car thing I took them for a little spin and fed them as soon as we got back. And they actually ate!

Damned if I know why that works though.
Vinny
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“There is a grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one; and that whilst this planet has gone on cycling according to the fixed laws of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being, evolved.” -C. Darwin, 1859

Natural Selection Reptiles

Yes I have tried it and it's worked a few times for me.

Set them on top of the washing machine for a full cycle. That can also do the trick, and you kill two birds with one stone, and you dont waste any fuel.
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South Texas Herps

nt

np
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South Texas Herps

That little trick was developed back in the early 70s by the late Thomas Huff, the pioneer of Epicrates maintenance and breeding. He took non-feeders for car rides back & forth over train tracks. When he got home they would immediately feed.

I'm a firm believer that our captive reptiles, especially snakes, are not provided with enough stimulation in captivity. Sure, they live to record ages and reproduce three times a year but they are not the same snakes that live in the wild. Snakes are far more sophisticated organisms that most keepers give them credit for. I think that they often, no, most of the time suffer from some level of boredom.

Many of us know a particular keeper of montain rattlesnakes. His cages are large, landscaped with soil, leaves and rock formations, several temerature gradients *and* several different humidity spots. He feeds his breeders one or two mice per year. His words. The mice are starved for several days before being given to the snake. I believe an occasional frozen lizard may be thrown in but his success is perhaps as good as it gets. Babies everywhere. The adults are firmly built, beautiful, alert and active. And none of the rattlesnakes or kingsnakes displayed the ugly "cellulite" fatty deposits under the skin.

I'm as guilty as anyone with my Rubbermade trays but as I cut back on my huge collection after all these years, I'm going to begin a new regimen of cage set-ups and husbandry techniques.

Might be something to ponder.

Cheers,

Terry Vandeventer

Terry,
If you would like word that "car ride" bullet copy I'll add it to our list. That document is looking good, I think we've got most if not all the tricks now.
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http://www.hcu-tx.org

Hi Joe,

That story was told to me by Tom Huff himself. It was also a frequent discussion around the break table at the Dallas Zoo. I remember laughing about the concept with Dick Ross and Tom Weidner. The image of Huff furiously driving these snakes around town and over the RR tracks and potholes is still vivid in my mind. Another thing to consider is temperature fluctuations that most certainly occured during the ride. Breeding and/or feeding often took place in the car before the ride was even over!

It is mentioned in the island Epicrates section of Ross & Marzec's book, "The Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boas."

I know the young guys hate to hear it when us old farts say it, but those were the good old days. The foundation for everything that is done today was laid back then. Everything in reptile collecting, captive maitenance and reproduction was an adventure and incredibly exciting. And for what it's worth, how many can remember hunting West Texas in June in the 60s for 21 nights straight and never seeing another collector?!

Cheers,

Terry

Not really a trick, but something I do, and I believe it relates to the "car ride" theory. As soon as I get an animal in, I unpack and immediately offer food, so far, every animal I have recieved eats a live pink or fuzzy or hopper, according to size. The animal might not eat the next time offered, but it always eats right out of unpacking. The sterilite is ready and I slide the animal in its' enclosure and walk away. It has aspen to burrow in, a small water dish and a hide. I then throw the aspen and a piece of the paper towel it was packed in into its' new home. They have a choice over the new tight hide or burrowing or under the paper towel to hide. Approximately 33/33/33 on choice of hide. Not very scientific but it works for me. I will try the car ride thing on the second meal refusers. Joe that little calking smacked a pinkie as soon as I got it home, lol, that wasn't a short ride!!!
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Todd Hughes

Also, do the adult w.c. alterna usually feed off the bat once home from the trip? Almost all the w.c. adult of other species feed immediately, such as longnose and emoryi. Curious as to others experiences on this. Babies are 50/50 for me and even less for my splendidas and holbrooki, although the speckled eggs I found went to pinkies and were never a problem, weird frickin' snakes, the adults are difficult. One adult speckled regurged a nest of baby birds and half a skink, part of the nest and all!
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Todd Hughes

All my wc 277's and Lantry's fed on mice right off the bat.
One wc Lajitas required lizard scented fuzzies and one wc Davis needed brained fuzzies.
I have been a believer for a long time in feeding as soon as you get them, whether cb or wc. If they refuse you can always try the "do not disturb" for a week in a secure encloser.

Totally agree, I guess the washing machine/car drive trick is one of the many unknown mysteries revolving around this group of snakes! What in nature would replicate that and why would it set them into a feeding mode? How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop? The world may never know, or three, if you are old school, lol!
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Todd Hughes