Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know how potentially bad sand can be for a hatchling but I really want a substrate that would be a little more aesthetically pleasing than newspaper or paper towels. How do you folks feel about alfalfa pellets for a youngin? They seem rather safe to me, curious about the experience others have had with it.
Thanks
-Daniel

I've read a few posts saying that alfalfa pellets make a lot of noise when stepped on and the sound my get annoying. Well currently i'm using wheat bran, it kind of looks like sand and i haven't had a problem with it yet. hope this helps!
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Just Another Herp Crazy Person

~Allan~
My Photos
1.2.2 Leopard Geckos - Lea, Cleo, Helios, 2 un-named and going to be sold
0.1.0 Bearded Dragon - Luna
1.0.0 Fire Skink - Blaze

My babies were kept on Ozee Bedding which is basically compressed wheat and bran. The great thing about this is that it falls apart easily in water, so if they to eat any accidently, it shouldn't cause any compaction problems. Not sure if it is available in US.

I'm using wheat bran as well, and I love it! No mess, no odor, no blockage. Looks like sand too!

has anyone here tried using playsand that has ben sprayed with water, tamped down and let dry like it is in nature (supposedly). the damp sand doesn't have airborne particles like dry sand and if it is damp not wet the dragons can walk on it and not get covered in it. after a while it develops a hard crust. dont know how practical it would be, just a thought.
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Bennett

www.beardiedragon.com

I've been contemplating using sand mixed with clay as a substrate.
I know I can get dry powdered modeling clay at an art supply store, but I don't know if it would have anything harmful to dragons in it... ( Thought about plaster of paris too, but the lime in it would be dangerous, I think.. ) We have plenty of natural red clay here, but the stuff would be a nightmare to sterilize, and it would probably stain the lizards as well.

So my thought is to mix the modeling clay with sand, put it in the tanks, wet it, and let the lights bake it.
It seems to me that it would be easy to clean, since all you'd have to do would be to scrape up any soiled spots, then re-wet it. ( It would only harden a half inch or so deep, at best, and wouldn't be as tough as fired clay )

Anybody have any thoughts on this? Good idea or bad?

D.A.

>>has anyone here tried using playsand that has ben sprayed with water, tamped down and let dry like it is in nature (supposedly). the damp sand doesn't have airborne particles like dry sand and if it is damp not wet the dragons can walk on it and not get covered in it. after a while it develops a hard crust. dont know how practical it would be, just a thought.
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>>Bennett
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>>www.beardiedragon.com

Personally, I would not suggest using this method, unless, you are willing to remove the BD(s) while the sand is getting packed down during the drying process. BDs are dessert creatures, therefore, they do not like humidity. I don't know how much water you have to spray on for the sand to compact down but it *seems* like there would be too much.

One of the other substrate mediums I've read that some people have had success in using is 50% sand and 50% soil. Supposedly, this mixture is less dusty than just play sand alone, compacts more than just sand alone, and biodegrades the feces. This last feature was touted as the main good reason for using this mixture. My only questions on this feature without having ever tried it, are, how long does it take to breakdown? Would it imply you do not have to change out the tank as often?

I don't use sand. I use bran, newspaper, and Bed-A-Beast. What I use depends on the animal's behavior. Out of all the other various substrates out there, I *think* (without ever trying it)the sand/soil is the next safest substrate.

JMHO.

-eva-

A little note on bran...
A BD owner and a biologist major/graduate up in Oregon (Ming) first came up with the bran idea back in mid 2001. She asked around many herpers and others who could provide some scientific thoughts on using this stuff as a substrate. Everyone gave the thumbs up.

Ming did some experiments on bran and considered issues such as mold factor, adhesion, digestibility, ability to dry out and others.

>>has anyone here tried using playsand that has ben sprayed with water, tamped down and let dry like it is in nature (supposedly). the damp sand doesn't have airborne particles like dry sand and if it is damp not wet the dragons can walk on it and not get covered in it. after a while it develops a hard crust. dont know how practical it would be, just a thought.
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>>Bennett
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>>www.beardiedragon.com

I keep hearing folks call Bearded Dragons "Desert creatures" but the fact is, that term's a bit misleading.
Yes, they live in arid areas, but from doing a bit of reasearch, and talking to people that live in Austraila, I'd hardly call their natural habitat a "desert". At least not in the sense that most people think of it.

"Australia has very little sandy desert country. Most of our dry country is low bushes and hard baked earth, or stony plains of laterite, limestone or sandstone."

The above is from this page:
http://coloherp.org/cb-news/archive/nature/ozdragon.php

There's also a good article on their natural habitat here:
http://www.smuggled.com/pogona1.htm

The bottom line, I guess, is that there's probably no "best" substrate to be had, other than a patch of good ol' "down under".

But with any luck at all, we'll all figure out what our critters like best, and what keeps 'em safe and happy, without having to import a chunk of Austraila.

Hope the above web sites help a bit.

D.A.

Yes, I should of stated arid climate as opposed to desert. Thanks for the correction. Here I am, propagating wrong information, my bad?

That article on smuggled.com is great!

Oh, the idea of using clay with sand sounds feasible. Just as a precaution, there may be some types/brands of clay that are not safe. I was going to make a BD hide using some modeling clay I purchased at a hobby shop. I don't remember the specifics but, the warning on this one package stated that it was hazardous somehow until the curing and baking process was complete.

>>I keep hearing folks call Bearded Dragons "Desert creatures" but the fact is, that term's a bit misleading.
>>Yes, they live in arid areas, but from doing a bit of reasearch, and talking to people that live in Austraila, I'd hardly call their natural habitat a "desert". At least not in the sense that most people think of it.
>>
>>"Australia has very little sandy desert country. Most of our dry country is low bushes and hard baked earth, or stony plains of laterite, limestone or sandstone."
>>
>>The above is from this page:
>>http://coloherp.org/cb-news/archive/nature/ozdragon.php
>>
>>There's also a good article on their natural habitat here:
>>http://www.smuggled.com/pogona1.htm
>>
>>The bottom line, I guess, is that there's probably no "best" substrate to be had, other than a patch of good ol' "down under".
>>
>>But with any luck at all, we'll all figure out what our critters like best, and what keeps 'em safe and happy, without having to import a chunk of Austraila.
>>
>>Hope the above web sites help a bit.
>>
>>
>>D.A.
>>

Glad you liked the articles.

As to the clay, I've had quite a bit of experience with art supplies. Many paints and other items have cobalt, arsenic, or any number of other poisionous materiels in them to create a particular color. And the "Air dry" clays usually have lime or some other substance in them to make them cure.

The stuff I'm planning to use is plain old dry powdered modeling clay, with no coloring or other chemicals added. It can usually be bought in 5 or 10 pound boxes, fairly cheap.

D.A.

>>Yes, I should of stated arid climate as opposed to desert. Thanks for the correction. Here I am, propagating wrong information, my bad?
>>
>>That article on smuggled.com is great!
>>
>>Oh, the idea of using clay with sand sounds feasible. Just as a precaution, there may be some types/brands of clay that are not safe. I was going to make a BD hide using some modeling clay I purchased at a hobby shop. I don't remember the specifics but, the warning on this one package stated that it was hazardous somehow until the curing and baking process was complete.
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>>
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thats what i use! i get the sand wet and then put it in the cage and walla! worls like a charm, i let it bake for a coupke of hours using the heat light,its quit nice i must say

-Robert

Ok, I justthought up of this idea let me know what you all think. What if I laid the said in the cage, then I take a solution of non-toxic elmers glue (the kind you ate back in kindergarten) with warm water in a spray bottle and sprayed the surface of the sand. My theory is that under the heat lamps this should dry out and form somewhat of a tougher skin on the sand surface preventing particles becoming airborne and also preventing the beardies from ingesting it. The toughness of it depending on the concentration of the glue in the water. Of course this would be done without a dragon in the cage.

It would be alot simpler to just line the bottome of the cage with ceramic tile.

Using powdered clay would be 10 times worse than using just plain sand. The powder can be inhaled by the dragon, causing irritation and maybe even death...same with plaster d'paris. Mixing this stuff with sand and wetting it to bake under the heatlamps would form a hard crust that would convert back to dust as the dragon runs around ontop of it.

If you really want a natural looking foor in your cage, but don't want to use a lose substrate, just pour a layer of cement and scuplt it to a pleasing shape and let it dry. Then coat it with a clear cement sealer or non toxic paint. They you can scrub it clean every month or so, and pick up poo daily.

The pellets somebody else suggested are not good either. They are small enough that a dragon can injest by accident and can cause choking or impaction. If it's the wooden pellets you can get for small animals, these have many dangers by themselves as they can keep bacteria, absorb moisture and mold. Not to mention if the dragon tries to eat them, the wood could swell inside of him and cuase major problems.