Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm debating about adding a green red-tailed rat to my collection. Now, I know every snake is different, and it depends on how much you handle-tame the snake when it's young, but I heard these guys can be really unpredictable? That they'll be fine for months, and then bite you out of the blue, etc.

So what I'm asking is, just how bitey are these guys when compared to a leucy texas rat?

No offense, but by the question I do not think you are ready for an oxy. In the US, it costs $300 for a CBB baby. Imports often come in for pretty cheap but the majority die after a short time in captivity. Even if they live, the money you spend on getting them to good health will make it fairly expensive. Their bites hurt much more than Texas rats and it will probably be more defensive if you get an import. They are faster and it would not be fun to have a 7 foot snake hanging on to a branch striking out at your face if you are not ready for it. Of course, you could get an import that heals quickly and is pretty laid back. I just mentioned the worst case scenario so you are prepared.
Sorry if it sounded like I was bashing you, I am by no means an expert. I just don't want to see you spend $ on one and have it die or want to kill you every time you open the cage.
If you have the $ to buy a CBB baby, I think you should go for it. It will probably calm down enough for you, but be ready for the future.
Do you have experience with any other big colubrids besides Texas rats?

John

Alright, to make a few points clear- I'm perfectly willing to shell out $$$ for a quality snake. I've had years of herping experience, I've helped out with hot owners, etc. Don't assume people are inexperienced, cheap and stupid because they're asking a question.

I've just heard that they're big biters, but nobody would say how much of a biter.

Yes, that is not what you meant. You took that the way I hoped you wouldn't. Sorry for that.

http://www.kicktheghost.com/gonvosoma/index.html

He sells them for $350 a piece and will have some in the spring. Again, my bad but I did not mean to make it look like I assumed you were inexperienced.
Good luck.

John

No harm, no foul. I suppose I've been bred to be defensive since some hot owners don't think women should/could handle venomous snakes.

You have handle hots yet your worried about a ratsnake being nippy?All those years of herping and you have to ask if a ratsnake can bite at times?Then you get defensive and bash a person who was trying to be helpfull?A person who gave you helpfull and accurate advice.Shame on you.Stick with goldfish they dont bite and there cheap.

>>Alright, to make a few points clear- I'm perfectly willing to shell out $$$ for a quality snake. I've had years of herping experience, I've helped out with hot owners, etc. Don't assume people are inexperienced, cheap and stupid because they're asking a question.
>>
>>I've just heard that they're big biters, but nobody would say how much of a biter.
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If lead paint is so deadly why do they make it so delicious?

Uhm, wow. Thanks for your title there, it sums up everything about your reply. The previous posts had miscommunication, which is a fact of life on the internet, and it was cleared up way before you showed up.

I've worked with hots, but I've never kept one in my home. The question was less for me and more for the other people that also inhabit this place. But it's none of your business.

By gosh your right.How could I forget the facts of life on the internet?Now let's see if I can get this right.
1.Your an experienced herper.
2.You have worked with hots.
3.Your question was based on the fact you wanted to educate others.
4.You asked a newbie question.
5.Someone with experience and knowledge tried to help you with great advice and tact.
6.You became unglued.

This is one of the best forums Ive had the honor to be in.Anyone here will try there best to answer any questions you have.If you play nice with others you might even make a few good friends here.Peace.

>>Uhm, wow. Thanks for your title there, it sums up everything about your reply. The previous posts had miscommunication, which is a fact of life on the internet, and it was cleared up way before you showed up.
>>
>>I've worked with hots, but I've never kept one in my home. The question was less for me and more for the other people that also inhabit this place. But it's none of your business.

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If lead paint is so deadly why do they make it so delicious?

I keep and have kept a lot of Gonyosoma, mostly red-tailed green rats. I'm mentioned on the website linked earlier.

Gonyosoma spp. are a bit nasty but are different from aggressive Texas Ratsnakes or other North American species. It's been so long since I kept a NA ratsnake that it's hard for me to remember and qualify the differences.

Gonyosoma seen to strike and then retreat when possible. My recollection of Texas rats is that they hold their ground and strike repeatedly. Also, once Gonyosoma are in hand and comfortable they rarely bite. If they are coiled around your arm they don't seem to bite. Texas ratsnakes do seem to bite from this position. Again I'm saying this from memory. And certainly I have kept nowhere near the number of NA ratsnake specimens as I have Gonyosoma so I'm not sure I'm the best to compare them.

I have had both tame Gonyosoma and extremely aggressive Gonyosoma. Honestly I don't really worry about it and enjoy their feisty nature. I rarely get bit. I'm a former venomous keeper and still have it ingrained in my head not to get bit.

BTW, I'm not sure I understand some of the responses to your question. I have worked with a lot of species of aggressive colubrids and many venomous snakes. But I've never even seen much less kept a Ptyas spp., for example, and I certainly would want to learn a bit about their behavior if I ever had the chance to get one. How aggressive they are would have absolutely zero bearing on whether or not I would keep one but it does not mean I wouldn't want to know first.

Feel free to contact myself or Freight (Freight is the guy from the Gonyosoma site mentioned earlier).
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Currently keeping a small collection of various Gonyosoma. Both G. janseni and G. oxycephala.

Thank you for the reply, I really appreciate it!

As for the aggression question, perhaps I should say- I was looking into their behavior like you said you'd do in a similar situation, and just wanted clarification on that side of their nature. I'd never get a snake just on how aggressive/passive they generally are.

Again, thanks for your post. I've been reading your site, it's very helpful.

You're welcome.

That is not my site. I played a minor role in its development but its not mine.

Freight is the man when it comes to this genus.
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Currently keeping a small collection of various Gonyosoma. Both G. janseni and G. oxycephala.

This used to be such a peaceful forum! LOL Lets not start acting like the tortoise people everyone!!! (Just kidding)

OK, so since I've been asked to have a look at your question lets put it all in perspective, shall we? W/C Gonyos can be a total nightmare, and if you want to keep one, and have a good experience doing so, just simply do yourself a favor and wait for my babies in the spring. Both W/C oxycephala, and Sulawesi black-tailed janseni can be very delicate, and riddled with disease, as well as stress related issues. They are not "pets", and many, if not most are not fun! It takes extensive medical intervention to keep most alive, and there are just no guarantees even if they still look OK 6-8 months after acquisition. They require extensive acclimation procedures in smaller than adequate cages, only gradually increasing the size of their cage to something more appropriate over 1-2 years in captivity. (Sound like fun so far???)

I do have W/C Malaysian orange tail oxycephala that have been quite a bit easier to work with, are larger than the Indonesian oxies, and have had generally far better temperaments than the Indos. I have literally taken pair out of their cage while wrapped around a branch, and simply sat the branch with the snakes attached on the floor, and not had either snake move while I clean their cage. That's a huge difference from indos, but all the initial medical treatments are still necessary to keep them alive! I will hopefully be offering C/B babies within the next year.

In between w/C, and C/B are C/H (captive hatched). Many of the C/H babies available are hatched in distributors warehouses, where conditions tend to be unhygienic to say the least. These babies may, or may not do well, and can have picked up mites, as well as disease from the multitude of other species present. They tend to change hands a few times before being made available to the public, and may not have eaten for many weeks by the time they get to you. They may be cheaper than C/B, but may not be worth the chance. (Ask Chris Harper)

On the flip side there are true C/B. Rarely available, and not cheap, but non-problematic. My babies are fed in butter tubs, they have little to no tendency to bite, and are a joy to work with when compared to W/C's. They are handleable if you want them to be, can be kept in a variety of settings without concern for stress, and eat consistently. Basically they do all the things you would expect from a healthy C/B snake without all the worries, nightmarish sudden illnesses, huge vet bills, and sudden deaths. Occasional one will be a little defensive in the cage, but once out they tend to be very placid.

The black Seleyar janseni is another option for the would be Gonyo keeper. W/C's are rarely available, but are far less problematic than all the other Gonyosoma. I presently have 2 W/C males that have been easy to keep, healthy, and handleable since I got them. Hopefully over the next year or so i will also be offering some of the black janseni as C/B babies, but for now I wait for eggs!

Any questions???

Freight
Link