Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I read the REPTILES mag article the other day. It seemed decent enough. There was one thing said at the end of the article that I thought odd.

It said how it is better to feed indigos in a separate cage than in the normal cage. I've never, not even once in the 13-14 years I've kept indigos,fed in a separate container. To me this seems like a great idea if you want to make a feeding response WORSE by conditioning the snake to expect food when it is handled. I don't like handling snakes after they have been fed either. It seems to me to be the most dangerous time for the animal to be held, with the ribs and stomach all distended combined with unaturally big movements that handling creates.

Let's hear some thoughts on the topic.

Doug T

Feeding response? If you open a cage and remove a snake for feeding in a separate container they look forward to being removed. If you open a cage and insert food the snake will be conditioned to lunge at an open door for food. The second benefit to feeding in a separate container is that you can keep it free of substrate that might get ingested.

I use both approaches but (if I had the time) would prefer to feed in a separate container. A separate container is a hassle since I would not want to cross contaminate and would need a container for each snake.

I have never had a large or small Cribo have a problem being handled after the meal as long as it goes right back in it’s cage.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

I'm with Doug on this one. Having also kept and bred indigos for nearly 15 years, I would never think of moving them to a separate cage/container to feed. These are feeding machines and even after feeding to satiation, they are usually looking for more - moving that snake back into its cage seems a little foolish and also a bit stressful to a snake that may have just taken a large meal. The same thing goes for large constrictors. They should always be fed inside their own cage unless you keep more than one in the same cage. I'd rather deal with a hungry snake in its cage and using proper hemostats/tongs to feed them. When taking them out, a snake hook does wonders to eliminate any problems.

Just my .02.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildilfe Discovery Center

>>Feeding response? If you open a cage and remove a snake for feeding in a separate container they look forward to being removed. If you open a cage and insert food the snake will be conditioned to lunge at an open door for food. The second benefit to feeding in a separate container is that you can keep it free of substrate that might get ingested.
>>
>>I use both approaches but (if I had the time) would prefer to feed in a separate container. A separate container is a hassle since I would not want to cross contaminate and would need a container for each snake.
>>
>>I have never had a large or small Cribo have a problem being handled after the meal as long as it goes right back in it’s cage.
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>>"Life without risk is to merely exist."
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Generally, I feed my cribos in their enclosures. I have never had any problems with this, and I've never experienced any feeding response aggression when reaching in the cage to get them out. Though, when they are in the process of feeding they are a completely different animal, and I avoid contact with them as much as possible.
My Pseustes on the other hand, are generally fed in a seperate Rubbermaid container. I feed them in such a way because when trying to feed them in a large, open cage they are usually more focused on biting me than the intended prey item. By feeding them in a Rubbermaid container I am able to cover the front of the bin, thus blocking the snake's view of me and allowing the animal to focus on feeding. After they have swallowed all of the prey items offered, I allow them to rest in the container for thirty minutes to an hour. After that, I move them as gently as possible to their standard enclosure. I have never experienced any problems with this feeding method, and it also offers the advantage of reducing possible substrate-caused impactions to a miniscule possiblity.
So, in my opinion, this is all but a manner of personal preference for the hobbyist. I use both methods with excellent results, and I think it is really up to the hobbyist to choose his method, if not some variation of the two discussed.

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Roy Blodgett
Green Man Herpetoculture
royreptile@yahoo.com

1.1 Drymarchon corais
1.1 Pseustes sulphureus
1.1 Masticophis taeniatus taeniatus
0.0.1 Coluber mormon
1.1 Lampropeltis getula californiae (desert phase)
1.0 Boiga dendrophila dendrophila
2.3 Pogona vitticeps (snow and red/gold)
1.0 Iguana iguana

“All men lie enveloped in whale-lines. All are born with halters round their necks; but it is only when caught in the swift, sudden turn of death, that mortals realize the silent, subtle, ever-present perils of life.”- Herman Melville

i haven't seen the article yet but i agree w/ doug. it seems to be one of those old wive's tales that just won't die & that statement just gave it more life. sure, my uni's rush me when i open the cage door but i just step back for a moment or 2 & that reaction quickly dissipates into harmless curiosity.then i quickly place the food in as far away from them as possible & get my hand outta there! never had a problem going about it this way.....

and the situation. I use both methods (often with the same snake) and I have never, in 30+ years of keeping snakes, seen it have any effect on overall feeding response either way. Let me qualify that statement by saying that I do not keep any drys. But I have kept all kinds of big constrictors, rat snakes and other small colubrids and depending on the animal (easily stressed? feed in the cage, etc.) and the situation (gotta do a real thorough cleaning? feed in a separate container, etc.) I could go either way. But again, in my experience, it doesn't have any real effect on their feeding responses - if the snake is hungry, and it smells food, and something comes into it's cage, it may just strike the first thing that moves. Or it may not. I have snakes that have huge feeding responses and snakes that must have their food left in with them overnight. The ones with big feeding responses I'm ALWAYS more aware of before I put my hands in their enclosures and the shy ones I'm typically more cavalier with. It just comes down to knowing your animals and how they will react to any given situation. And like Rob said, use of hooks and tongs/hemos goes a long way in avoiding bites to the keeper and stress to the animals.

Billy

My recent method is to open the cage and let them come out into the room. I simply throw them a meal and let them fetch and then I throw another meal in a different spot which they also fetch. When they finish they look for their cage to retreat into. Kinda funny when they go past the other cages looking in at the other occupants.

On a separate note Unicolor locked up Nov 11 7:25 PM Kansas time. First real cold snap out here. Male was introduced twice previously with no activity. I could tell she was ready to breed this time as the male was trashing his cage trying to get to her.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Hello, Drymarchon folk. Because I keep snakes on newspaper, there's no reason to remove them into a smaller box for feeding. One advantage I do see is uneaten food would be noticed. Ever sniff out an uneaten meal a few days later, hidden in a corner or underneath something?

np