Reptile & Amphibian Forums

very interesting set of posts. i think one of the biggest issues not really tackled here is sloppiness. it is more often a killer than dishonesty, and in my opinion, just as unforgivable. i am always amazed at how people think they are going to keep track of everything in their head. i always look for breeders who force themselves to keep some minimum records on the cage. what a brown snake is, and what it has been bred to. if this forum allowed it, i would bust out some names that i would never buy a het from, great, honest people who have no real control over what is what. nice folks, but after several years of raising hets, just as horrible as scammers. there never is a good way to repay your loss. jay is right, if you produce a het, it's still a het, even if it changes hands. with a photo, you can id a snake for it's entire life. if i sell a het, i know it's a het. i have clutch and individual photos to verify. i know what i've bred to what, and i understand genetics. now the best i can do for anyone who bought a snake secondhand is verify it's id. i don't know what they bred it to, but keeping good records and not haphazardly tossing males in with females leaves me confident of what i'm producing. i don't believe in sperm being retained from season to season. on the rare occasions i've resold an unproven het, i have always let the buyer know who produced it, what it is supposed to be, and that i have not proven it myself. they can decide if they like the deal. anybody starting out, buy a het from the sutherlands, or pete kahl, or ralph davis, just to see how it's done right. it's just a matter of good practices and recordkeeping. kurt d.

In this day in age, in addition to the proper paperwork and records, photo ID should be a MUST (especially with HETS). There are some out there Big names and Small who do it correctly. Purchased a het pied male from Don Kaye recently and the records,additional paperwork, and photos were meticulous. It's just about taking pride in what you do and representing an honest product.
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Jon F

While I haven't purchased a het from Don Kaye I've purchased some of his exceptional pastels and I have to agree, his paperwork that comes with the sale is amazing! Pics of the snake, pics of mom and dad, hatch date, feed and weight info, etc.

In addition to all that, he is honest and trustworthy. Don is a real good guy in this industry IMHO.
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Alice Cobb
Florida Reptile Room

We have only purchased one Ball Python from Don Kaye, and it was only a normal, whats amazing, even with his normals we got the same treatment as if we where buying a morph, he was a great guy to deal with, love the ball python we got from him. Like you mentioned, we got pics of the parents, detailed notes from when it hatched...feeding records...I have never received paperwork like that on ANY snake I have ever purchased, I was totally not expecting it on a Normal Ball Python...

Here is the Ball I bought for my wife...from Don Kaye Reptiles

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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

I bought a pastel from Don, & this transaction still stands out in my mind as one of my best so far. Pre & post-purchase phone calls & follow-up to boot.

Don definitely rocks it!

Right on, Kurt-but what worries me even more is when I see folks -usually but not always relative newbies to reptile breeding-who have large breeding collections,have bred and sold some balls (sometimes many), and have even incorporated under some catchy, professional-sounding business name. But these "professionals" will show by their posts that they have, shall we say, an "imperfect" understanding of the genetics behind the very morphs they are breeding and selling! Scary.

Caveat emptor.
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Brad Chambers

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

i am just getting into balls and the idea of a photo id of the snake and the parents along with the feeding card would make me feel a lot better about when i am purchasing het i know mixups can happen when my friends play with my snakes i know they dont alwase get back in the correct tub. and i find myself sorting them all out. i only have 12 right now but more in the future.i am going to photo id all of my snakes today so i dont have problems in the future.

thanks for the advice

Sometimes you need to do an emergency evacuation. Photo ID's come in quite handy when you don't have another method evacuation in place and must quickly "grab and bag" animals.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Jay,

I have fooled around with doing a hand sketch in the upper portion of the feed card for each snake. I do it from about an inch past the base of the head up to the tip of the nose in a top down viewpoint. I use the unique markings on the neck, top of the head, or stripes by eyes as indicators. I have seen this done on Animal Planet or National Geographics channel by scientist to identify apes, lions, elephants, etc.. I find it very easy and useful.

Alan

i've known don for years [he's local] and always liked him. i guess i'm going to have to buy something from him and see what all the fuss is about. kd