Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Should I call these 07' sunglows high contrast, coral, pastel, red, lipstick, super, or?? It doesn't really matter since I like them regardless what you call them!

Male- poss super from a Burke Lipstick line sunglow X DH sunglow female

Female- from DH sunglow male X coral albino female

I would refer to the bloodline as a percentage. If the sunglow came directly from the burkes and is a lipstick line, I would call the offspring 50% lipstick line. If the sunglow was a 50% I would call the offspring 25 % lipstick line, and so one. That is how I would do it since it is a bloodline, that way the strength or residuals of that bloodline can be quantified by a percentage. But then it gets tricky because the bloodlines attributes may be stronger in some animals and not present in others regardless of the % of bloodline. This is the same problem faced with the harlequin bloodline. If it becomes extremely dilute and the visible traits aren't their, can you still call it a harlequin. At least it can be validated by a percentage so others can prove lineage to a bloodline later on. Sorry for being so long winded. Regardless of all this, if they are coral, you can sell them as such anyway but I would hold on to the bloodline since it has been established. Trey

I forgot to mention, if they came from a sunglow X DH or DH X DH, anything hypo should be considered a possible super. If they are coral call them coral. And if they came from the Burke lipstick line I would refer to them as I posted previously. That's how I'd do it at least.

I wouldn't call them pastels, because no pastel was involved in the breeding. You could call them possible supers. I wouldn't call them corals unless they are from a coral line and confirmed as corals by the other breeder (not the Burkes). You could call them high contrast or red no one could have a problem with that. If you're looking for a name that will be useful when selling them, certainly the lipstick name is valuable. I don't know if they are really lipstick sunglows though. Trey suggested 50% sunglow, I think that or "sunglows, possible lipstick" is the only fair way to exepress what they are. There's no way to know if each individual animal got the "lipstick" gene.
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com
http://slitheringserpents.com

I agree that they shouldn't be called pastels, and no one would disagree with calling animals red or high constrast if it is obvious. However, few people can trace back their "coral" animals to Pete Kahl's original coral litters. Corals just happen to pop up all the time regardless of whether or not they are related to existing coral lines. Also, there is no "lipstick gene", it is simply a bloodline that has a wide range of color results and to avoid calling other animals in the future lipstick in the same way we throw around the term corals, the bloodline should be kept in tact by refering to their direct lineage to the burke's lipstick animals or else the point of a bloodline is useless.

I didn't say corals should be traced back to Pete Kahl. But there's a problem with everyone deciding for themselves what is and what is not a coral. Lots of people sell snakes that are "corals" that haven't even developed their color yet. Some of those snakes will never develop the coral colorations. It takes the meaning out of what corals are, and reduces them to something subjective.

I didn't mean the "lipstick gene" literally either, I just meant the traits that allowed the Burke's to develop the strain. Every person isn't really qualified to say what is and isn't a "lipstick" sunglow.
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com
http://slitheringserpents.com

I'll agree with you totally on that one. So many people have corals for sale and they don't have a hint of coral coloration, they just expect it to coral up because maybe one of the parents is coral or they have been told it was a coral and so on. I'll agree with you on the lipstick stuff, but I appreciate a well established bloodline that has offspring which produce the same results. Whether the animals have the "lipstick" expression people are looking for, they can still be traced back to the bloodline and may still be capable of producing "lipstick" results whether they express that color or not. I just think it is important to keep track of the bloodline to know just how much lipstick influence may be involved or if it is a random act altogether. Really it makes no difference what you call them. Those sunglows are outstanding, and for people who don't care about the lineage of their animals it doesn't matter. I'd just hate to see someone pick up a related lipstick animal, produce killer sunglows, and then try to call them their own bloodline. For instance, the Doug Matusak's sharp sunglows use orangetail hypos rather than salmons and if people lost track of that others might assume that all sharp sunglows are comparible on the same level when there are specific differences. It is important to keep track of that in the long run wouldn't you think.

I do agree with you. I think it's very important to retain as much information possible.
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com
http://slitheringserpents.com

some people are slapping any old name onto otherwise colorful Boas and charging up 400% of what a typical boa would for. I feel this is very deceiving and puts people who are just getting into boas in a bad spot.

my 2 cents

Greg

People buy Pastels assuming no different as well

>>some people are slapping any old name onto otherwise colorful Boas and charging up 400% of what a typical boa would for. I feel this is very deceiving and puts people who are just getting into boas in a bad spot.
>>
>>my 2 cents
>>
>>Greg
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TnK

n/p
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0.1 CB fiancee' Kelly (Pythona)
1.1 Albino Burms
1.1 Pigmy leaf chameleons
0.0.1 Razorback Musk Turtle (Lil Cheney)
1.0 Irian Jaya Bluetongue Skink
0.1 Eastern Bluetongue Skink
1.0 Black Throated Monitor
0.1 Savanna Monitor
0.1 Ball Python het pied
1.0 Pastel Ball Python
0.1 Ball python
1.0 Albino ratsnake
1.0 Mali Uromastyx
0.1 Emperor scorpion (gravid)
0.1 Deathstalker (most toxic scorpion in the world!)
0.0.1 Fantasy frog
1.1 Amazon Tree Boas
Ever growing Boa colony
1.1 Cal Kings (50/50 and lavender albino)
1.0 Blood Python
2.2 Leopard Geckos
1.2 African Fat Tailed Geckos
1.1 Sugar Gliders (Memphis & Gravy)
2.1 dumb-estic cats (Nugget,Pedro & Dixie Bubbles)
1.1 American Pit Bull Terrier (Joker & SEGA) Punish the Deed not the Breed
0.1 Jack russell/chihuahua cross (Harley)

Well my snakes serve a second purpose...they keep my family out of my house

Shane:

I'd call them beautiful just beautiful.

Congratulations on producing such awesome animals.

Brian
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Brian Gundy

www.for-goodness-snakes.com

Wow super clean..and sharp!..congrats on those for sure.
Shane I beleive you missed out on a killer motley combo last season..better times ahead..wish you the Best.

From a marketing stand point I think you could list them as Lipstick line Sunglows. However you need to put emphasis on the fact that only one of the parents was from the line in yor ad if that is your plan.

Making up a name for the line like the "bestest line" is wrong, it gives people who are not to familiar with boa lines the wrong impression.

All that aside beautiful Sunglows I love the neon orange and high contrast. No matter what you call them I am sure they will find new loving homes in no time flat.

Thanks for Sharing

Greg

Seems to me people are quick to accept the Burke Lipstick line as an OK label, while knocking anybody else naming their line.

Please correct me where wrong but didn't Tom selectively purchase high color albino's from which the "lipstick" line was born. A simple result of well selected breeding stock and selective breeding at it's best. As I remember, there are two "lipstick" breeder females, Coral and Ruby. Don't take me wrong, I really admire the lipstick line and have one myeslf. My point is why do people find it acceptable for Tom Burke to name his selectively choosen stock as "lipstick line" at the same time saying nobody else should name theirs. What if it were to come out that Tom's original animals came from Joe breeders tangerine line (duh, made this one up), should Tom have to rename his lipsticks?

Bottom line to me is Tom Burke has done a wonderful job of producing high colored albino's and sunglows. He also IMO did a GREAT job of marketing by identifying his line with a catchy name. I believe "lipsticks" still command a higher price just from the name/lineage than a comparable "no-name line" animal.

>>From a marketing stand point I think you could list them as Lipstick line Sunglows. However you need to put emphasis on the fact that only one of the parents was from the line in yor ad if that is your plan.
>>
>>Making up a name for the line like the "bestest line" is wrong, it gives people who are not to familiar with boa lines the wrong impression.
>>
>>All that aside beautiful Sunglows I love the neon orange and high contrast. No matter what you call them I am sure they will find new loving homes in no time flat.
>>
>>Thanks for Sharing
>>
>>Greg
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
24.36 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

... I don't plan on marketing or selling them anytime soon. I was sort of poking fun at how just about every albino or sunglow I see for sale is called either, red, pastel, coral, lipstick, or something else(insert creative name here) when none of these are truly genetic(recessive, dominant, or co-dominant). I've seen many albinos and sunglows from these so-called bloodlines that don't look anything like what I would call a pastel, coral, or lipstick, but I guess in the end its all left up to individual interpretation!

lol I thought you were serious. I understand exactly where you are coming from. All that BS is starting to get to me.

LOL Crazy Boa People

Greg

the future of pet boa constrictors. better make a bunch. kd

Very well said Shane.

You've done an excellent at selective breeding to produce such nice group of high quality animals.

Thank you so much for sharing.

Brian

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Brian Gundy

www.for-goodness-snakes.com

Thanks Brian, but I can't take credit for producing them, even though I have animals that could produce very similar animals. The male was acquired from Jon Levey at Jon's Jungle and I don't know who produced him. The female was produced by Randy Yasuda.

REALLY nice, selectively bred albinos? That name's not worth 2x the value of the animals, but it's true description and should capture the appropriate ROI!
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Jonathan Brady
"Sarcasm is angers ugly cousin" -Dr. Buddy Rydell (Jack Nicholson) in "Anger Management".