Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Now the goods!

-----
Todd Hughes

Hey Todd, nice speck! I did a little field herping, on Sunday, in a certain place near my house (you know the place). I found bunches of green anoles, ground skinks, and leopard frogs. I also finally caught the anuran which has been eluding me for years... A Rio Grande chirping frog (Syrrhophus cystignathoides)I am pretty sure it is what I think it is. The call matches the description in field guides, and it is not a narrow mouthed frog or cricket frog. Took pics of the frog and an anole in the same old willow stump where I found a Texas rat snake this spring.

Photos: Rio Grande chirping frog
Anole in old, rotted willow stump
Texas rat snake in the same willow stump

-Toby

-----
The Ratsnake Foundation

Whoops, accidetally hit enter! Anyway, here are the other two pics. (hopefully)

-----
The Ratsnake Foundation

Toby,

I don't know if that photo is the frog you are referring to, but that's a Great Plains Narrowmouth Toad, not a Chirper.

Chris
-----
Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

yeah the little narrowmouths make a short, high pitched buzzing sound always from the water, sorry to burst your bubble Toby but I gotsta go with Chris on this one. They are cool to see and I cannot get a good photo of one to save my life, I will have to bring one out in the light next time.

-----
Todd Hughes

Nope, I know it's not a narrow-mouthed frog. I'll let you tell me it's anything but that. We do have lots of them here, but this is not one. It is hard to tell in the photo, but the head is not that pointed, and the body is not fat and flat. It's skin is granular - not smoothe. These frogs have a non-musical chirping call. I know the call of narrow-mouthed frogs also. Narrow-moutheds are easier to catch than this frog also.

-Toby
-----
The Ratsnake Foundation

Chris, I've been doing some studying, and I'll admit I no longer think that this is a chirping frog. I do know that we have them here, and I have caught them before (years ago). I did not know that they were known to live so far north already (I'm not a frog guy), and was excited to possibly have caught one as I've been trying for a long time. I'll keep trying - there is a good population of them around my house (I hear them calling every time it rains in the summer), but so hard to track down and even harder to catch.

...Okay, maybe it's an odd looking narrow-mouthed frog, but what about the granular skin?

-Toby
-----
The Ratsnake Foundation

Toby,

I'm in agreement with Chris. That is a Great Plains Narrowmouth Toad (Gastrophyne olivacea)and not a Chirping Frog (Syrrhophupus). Same with Todd's.
-----
Gerald Keown
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
www.southwesternherp.com

Toby, I think that is why there is/was some confusion about the Gastrophenes, some may have warty type skin, some smooth, or a combination of both. I have seen them called both frogs and toads in different publications/field guides. I call them toads but I could be wrong, lol, it has happened many times before! and will again!
-----
Todd Hughes

Todd,

Congratulations on the nice king! Are they still "splenbrooki" down that way? Is the frog in your post a Syrrhophus? If so, which county was it in? (I'm trying to keep track of the official/unofficial records for these guys: http://thornscrub.com/campi.htm).

By the way, it was nice to meet and chat with you at the SA expo earlier this month.

Toby: I'll pose the same question about your Syrrhophus: Which county did you find it in?

Thanks.
-----
Tom Lott

Thornscrub

Herp Conservation Unlimited

Hello Tom, yes I believe that the frog I caught is a chirping frog, which I'd call Syrrhophus cystignathoides (Audubon field guide 1979), except that I am in Nueces County which is more than a hundred miles north of where their range is supposed to end. I am too far east for S. marnocki, and it doesn't look like that species anyway. I caught several of these several years ago, but never photographed them, and then I couldn't catch one again until now. BTW, the photo in the Audubon guide is not typicl for this species imho, but the one in my old Conant field guide (1958 - United States and Canada...) looks much more like the specimens I have found here.

It's great that you are studying these frogs, and I wish you the best of luck. I'd be interested to see their confirmed range extended at least this far north.

Not sure about Todd's frog, but possibly a chirping frog or maybe a Blanchard's cricket frog..?

-Toby Brock
-----
The Ratsnake Foundation

Rio Grande Chirpers have been north of the valley for decades now. When I was in high school in Houston in the late 70s early 80s, they were non-existant in Houston. By the end of the 80s, they were abundant.

They are very common in San Antonio as well. I don't know to what degree they have spread out of cities however.

Just for reference, they are tiny. An adult could sit on a dime.
-----
Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Tom,

I don't think either Todd's or Toby's frogs are Syrrhophus. They are Gastrophryne olivacea.

Your Syrrhopus website is awesome. Makes me want to get out and fill in some of the missing counties! I'll let you know if I do.

Chris
-----
Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Yep, mines a narrowmouth and I think Toby's is too, sorry bro, they really can't be mistaken for anything else, the shape is very distinctive, what was the call you heard? Did you see this one calling? They are hard to spot because sometimes they call from under water! My frog/toad was from calhoun county, Tom. And it was great to gab with you at the show, gonna be in Austin?
Oh and Toby, I was calling these narrowmouths until Chris pointed me in the right direction, a sheep frog from western Nueces county!

-----
Todd Hughes

Todd,

Great visiting with you at the SA show earlier this month.

Are these photos of the same Sheep Frog that you posted on the HCU site a while back?

Have a great Turkey Day.
-----
Gerald Keown
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
www.southwesternherp.com

Yeah those are the same, not likely to see them again until next year, they bury themselves, unlike the narrowmouths that can be found under cover even in full winter.
-----
Todd Hughes

Although I originally defended my i.d. of the frog as a chirping frog, I have studied your site and some other sources, and agree with Chris now. I have caught Rio Grande chirping frogs here, in past years and I know their call from other frogs' calls.

-Toby Brock
-----
The Ratsnake Foundation

Admittedly, my first impression of both photos was also G. olivacea, but given that none of the four counties Todd mentioned has official/unofficial records for Rio Grande Chirpers, I had to make sure. Here are a couple of shots of both species from my backyard in Pleasanton, where they occupy the same microhabitat.

Great Plains Narrow-mouthed Toad (Gastrophryne olivacea)

Rio Grande Chirping Frog (Syrrhophus cystignathoides)

Toby: Thanks for the information. Rio Grande Chirpers have been documented from Nueces Co. for about the last ten years. They have been spreading so fast in Texas that neither the field guides nor museum records have been able to keep up. The map below is a better estimate of their current range. Additionally, there is at least one record from Louisiana!

Chris: Thanks for the kind words. I suspect that most of those blank counties in the SE half of the state probably harbor these little guys. They seem to be spreading at an even faster rate than the Med geckos originally did. And apparently they adapt to cool weather better than E. planirostris.

Todd: I’m not yet sure whether I’ll be able to make it to the Austin expo. If I do, it will probably be on Sunday.

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving!

-----
Tom Lott

Thornscrub

Herp Conservation Unlimited

Nueces county is interesting in itself, only because we have flooding of the river that would/could wash species down, and they end up in Toby's backyard so to speak, and we are relatively close to the border, allowing for travel up the coast. Also the hurricanes may/do wash things in from down south, as well as populate areas with other things from the north. Tom, hope to see you there and great website. Toby, I will look again at your frog, as I am not a frog guy either, but willing to learn. Take what I say about frogs/toads for what it is worth, next to nada!
-----
Todd Hughes

Todd, I have caught Rio Grande chirpers before, but it's been a long time. There is a webite or two where you can hear their call. Once you hear it, you can't mistake it for anything else. These frogs live in my "backyard" both figuratively (the area of the Nueces River floodplain - nearby)and in reality, as well. We hear them calling underneath the porch and along the fence-line when it rains, in the summer. There was a group of them living in an outdoor storage closet at an apt complex where I used to live. I would hear them at night, and finally caught some, and Id'd them as R.G. chirpers. They were tiny, smaller than the frog in my photo. Yep, I admit I was wrong about it and willing to learn from those more knowledgeable, but I guess I get defensive sometimes - apparently I really wanted that frog to be a chirper! LOL!

-Toby
-----
The Ratsnake Foundation

Hey, if you want it to be a RG chirper than so be it, lol! I know what you mean, I really suck at the frog i.d.'s so I leave it up to the ones who are in the know. I don't see many frogs other than the usual suspects, maybe one new frog species a year, so I don't pay that much attention, but now with the camera it is fun to learn new things, as long as I'm finding snakes and lizards!
-----
Todd Hughes

LOL! Todd, I'm fine with and even agree with these guys, on my narrow-mouthed frog which I had so hoped was a chirping frog! Took me a little to come around to it, is all... I'll leave the unknown amphibian id-ing to those who are better informed next time.

-Toby
-----
The Ratsnake Foundation

me too, Chris is a whiz!
-----
Todd Hughes

and Tom, I was posting a narrowmouth from the other four counties, just to be sure. I may have something for you as I photoed three different amphs in one photo under a stack of ply, lemme see if I can find it, you and Gerold may use anything you find interesting in the frog/toad area!
-----
Todd Hughes