Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I put my pair of boas together on Sept. 30 and have them on a 2 weeks together and then 1 week apart routine. However, in the nearly two months that they've been together on and off, I haven't witnessed any courting and therefore, no copulation or ovulation either. When they're together they lay curled up with each other but don't seem interested in mating. I'm wondering if it's normal for them to be together this long and not be courting (I'm really thinking it isn't) and if not, what can I do to increase my chances of them breeding successfully for me?

Thanks,
Dylan
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Dylan Lutz

1.1 BCI, 1.0 Bearded Dragon

Don't know.
Staying together a good sign I should think.
Try: 1) dropping temp a few degrees, 2) spray misting with warm water to increse humidity, 3) provide hide and more seclusion.
Others would know much better than me.

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As hard as I try, just can't NOT do this!!!
John Crickmer

ive had mine together for 6mnths ive seen a tail wrap or two but im calling it happenings, meaning they curled up that way and isn't necessarily courting, either that or im missing it as all the courting pic's i see are zig zag and tail tucks sooo time will tell, so tell me if you would consider this a love streak. After all it doesn't have to be twisting, it can be side to side and these have been doing that ALOT!!

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1.4 various boas(Flicka,Felony,Nova,Alias,Alibi,confessa,custody,Ms.Demeanor)
0.1 BRB Abalone; ABBI
1.0 Rott X (OSO)
2.0 cats (Simba, Morris)
fish & feeders

Thanks for the quick replies guys! I guess I may be getting worried a bit too soon but it just seemed unusual to me that they don't seem to be breeding yet.
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Dylan Lutz

1.1 BCI, 1.0 Bearded Dragon

Of course there's always the possibility you have two of the same sex?? Sexing errors do happen!!!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
24.36 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Note the male (albino) is on top, kinda like he's pinning the female. He's pretty much covering her (obviously size does make a difference as to how much pinning/covering he can do) His tail is wrapped on either side of her so he can push his hemipene into her while holding her steady.

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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
24.36 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Mine were positinoed like that. Looked good to me, but I've seen so many pics with male tail completely wrapping female several times. Caused me to wonder.
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"As hard as I try, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Also, I've read of many births that came from a boa that people thought couldn't be gravid because no activity nor ovulations were witnessed... while a 'good' breeding male will probably be seen aggressivly courting (IMO), there are cases where it happens without being seen. You never know! I do agree with above posts, it could be other things too... wrongly sexed snake(s) or perhaps they just aren't interested. Sometimes even if they court continuously a female won't wtake' anyway... so breeding can be tricky.
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
0.1 DH Sunglow (Bonnie)
1.0 Het. Anery (Guy)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.1 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal)
1.2 Hogg Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Apricot)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
0.1 Emerald Tree boa (Jade)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.1 Carpet Pythons (Jackson & Charlotte)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

See, I've seen nothing like that at all. In fact, a lot of the time the female is sitting on top of the male lol. I'm almost positive the sexes are correct because both of them were sexed right in front of me by professionals so I'm fairly confident I have a pair.
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Dylan Lutz

1.0 Mangrove Snake, 1.1 BCI, 1.0 Bearded Dragon

Concerned? I won't see anything happening untill next year, usually right around late January through February. If not later, depending on how the cold fronts lay themselves out.

I think some boas are a little shy about their love making.

I bred Hogs for a few years and I NEVER saw any action. They
would always do it inside the cave or when I wasn't around.

Now I've got a pair of silverbacks that are screwing all over the
place. They do it right up against the glass door. I was
pleasantly surprised. Hopefully I haven't jinxed 'em. Next year
should be interesting.

Hey Dylan. I wouldn't be too concerned just yet. BUT, and this has been mentioned, are you absolutely certain you have a pair? Even the "experts" can mess it up sometimes.

How old/big are your animals? My boas showed absolutely no interest when they were 3, but the next season, they were definitely ready.

Ok, assuming you definitely have a mature pair, try separating them again but for another month at least. Drop the temps so the NTL's go down in the lower 70's and keep the DTH's around 80-82. Limit the lighting to about 10 hours a day too. Ideally, try to introduce the male again in another month or so, but if you can do it right after she sheds, it may up your chances of stimulating him to start courting her. When you do introduce them, slowly bring the temps back up and mist them heavily. Then, just leave them together for the next few months and keep your fingers crossed!

Good luck!
Billy

Have you tried giving them more heat?

My boas like to be warm and toasty during breeding season. I keep a hot spot that's 92 degrees. The cool end of the cage stays between 81 to 84 degrees. I keep the snake room at 80 degrees during the day and 75 degrees at night. I found that if the room temps got down to 70 degrees, they'd stop breeding. When the room temps got down to 70 degrees, the cool end of the cage got down to 78 degrees. Apparently 78 degrees is too cold for my boas. They'd just stay on the hot spot.

I've had 4 boas ovulate, so far, this year. So, higher temps seems to work for me.

Anyway, that's the way my boas perfer to be kept.

Thanks for all the info guys! That's odd that some seem to have success with warmer temps and some with lower. In my case, I have the thermostat set to 90 degrees for the hot spot because my herp room is a little chilly in the winter months (60-65 degrees usually). However, when I first introduced them in late September I had the thermostat set at 85 degrees for a hot spot when the outside temps were milder. One thing that has been mentioned that I have not tried is the misting. I figure it can't hurt to give that a shot when I reintroduce the male again.

Billy, both my boas are around the 7' mark with the female being the slightly longer and much heavier of the two. The male is roughly 4 years old and the female is slightly over 2 and a half years (I know some may say this may be too young but she is a robust healthy boa that has never been powerfed).
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Dylan Lutz

1.0 Mangrove Snake, 1.1 BCI, 1.0 Bearded Dragon

Sounds like the female is too young. If that is the case, don't think she will have the right stuff (phermones) to get the male interested.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

See, I thought someone would say that but I've read of females being bred and successfully producing babies as young as 18 months (this obviously is NOT normal or healthy but apparently it has happened).
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Dylan Lutz

1.0 Mangrove Snake, 1.1 BCI, 1.0 Bearded Dragon

That's with males. Smaller males, like Central American forms.

Females generally take about 4 years, to be on the safe side.

jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

No, I'd also read a similar thing, it was a female.

However, such a thing is by far an EXCEPTION... just like a very young human girl giving birth. Things like this have happened, but most humans aren't ready to ovulate until 10 - 15 years of age.

So, the supposed viable breeding of an 18 month old female boa could very well have happened, but the maturity level of any female boa at a given age can't be positive. Some might be 3 or 4, some might be 2, or 2 and a half.

So you can look at it in the same way, even though it might seem strange to equate human maturity to boas... but we're all critters when it comes down to it!

I also had a 2.5 year old female hog island that I thought was very healthy and large enough for breeding, and put her in with a male for several months, and I noticed some breeding activity.

She died a week before I thought she was due (she developed a telescoped intestine and died within a week of that happening - not related to breeding but the swelling due to the intestinal problem made me think she was gravid at the time). When the vet necropsied her, he said her ovaries showed NO signs of activity at all. So in her case, she obviously wasn't mature yet at 2.5 and healthy weight.

So, it seems that female boas can't be "guaranteed" to be ready for breeding until 3 or 4 years of age at least, though many can at 3, and some at 2 or 2.5. So you can try... but you may not get any results at all.
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Lauren Madar - OphidiaGems.com | CageMakers
1.1 Ball Python, 1.0 Hog Island Boa, 1.1 Hypo BCI, 1.1 Surinam BCC, 1.1 Saharan Sand Boa

Thanks for the reply Lauren, it was helpful. I guess all I can do is give it a shot and hope for the best. If I don't have any luck there's always next year.
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Dylan Lutz

1.0 Mangrove Snake, 1.1 BCI, 1.0 Bearded Dragon

How old is your male and female? How large is your male and female? You can cut your light down to 6 hours a day, but if your snakes are not big enough or mature enough it will have no effect. Some folks drop temps, some don't, both ways work. Most folks just find what works for them.

I'll just bet your snakes are too immature yet or they just don't like each other. If you feel your female is mature, you might try a different male. You can also try this trick. Put the shed of another mature male in with the pair, sometimes it will stimulate the male to breed.

Good luck
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com
http://slitheringserpents.com