Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know this question has been asked before, but what are the pros and cons of using sand as a substrate, and what are potential hazards of using it with young (5 mo. old) corn or kingsnakes?

cons-
heavy
hassle to clean
dust get into animal's nose
impaction
great place for bacteria/mold to grow
if a snake dump it water dish you will need to replace the whole sand.

pros-
looks nice and that's it.

i would not use sand myself. you better off using carefresh/aspen/newspapers. i am a paper guy.

that's my opinion. without going into vast detail about the cons of paper, i will ask everyone who uses paper just two questions. How would you like to be a snake kept on newspaper? How would you like to be a human kept on newspaper. something to ponder. Rusty

if i was to reside on newspaper "My Keeper"could change it regularly and if i wanted seclusion i would coil underneath...............ps hope i get the funny page

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you will hear from some of us saying...healthy snakes is a happy snakes. my snakes that are kept on papers still eat/drink and having good sheds meaning that they're fine. why don't you try and have about 50 snakes and keep them in a sand/barks and see how much money your going to put into them and cleaning tasks might takes forever. some people might like to have 1 or 2 snake(s) as pet then setting up the cage would not be a problem. but safety is a concern like sand for example and there are other bedding that can be use to make a cage looks nice. i hope you understand this and hope this help. hopefully others can chime in.

I use papertowel for all my larger snakes, after trying everything I could think of. When they passed urates, half the tub of aspen would have to be replaced. When they pooped in cypress bedding or coconut husk bedding, I could never find it easily, and urates would still seep into half the clean bedding in the tub. Bark was too dry, as were any kind of pellets, and sanichips became messed up with urates just as quickly as aspen.

Nothing is cheaper, easier to clean, and also as capable of holding just enough moisture to raise the humidity for high-humidity-needs snakes.

My baby king is also doing great on papertowel, having just had a complete shed, and she's also eating regularly and easily. I have far less problems feeding her than my last king, who was kept on "forest bedding" deep enough for him to burrow, and he could never find his dinner.

My snakes eat, shed, breed, and act like healthy snakes... Hell, if most of my health problems could be solved by living on papertowel, I'd do it too!

~jenny
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"Polysyllabism in no way insures that what you're saying is actually worth being heard." - Blake (an e-friend of mine)

"I have never made but one prayer to god, a very short one: "O lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And he granted it." - Voltaire

A long, long time ago (twenty years ago) I kept my snakes on paper for a couple years. then i switched to aspen for most, cypress for others. I'm referring to colubrids and pythons. big pythons as well as small (hundreds of snakes). yes, i use a lot of bedding, but it's really not all that cost prohibitive. It's also actually very quick and easy to service colubrids and small boids. without going into detail, a small shop vac is the way to go. not my brainstorm, but i use it. i feel through my experience that i know the diference between the "Happiness levels" of snakes kept on bedding as opposed to paper. snakes kept on bedding are happier (what i really mean is that they are more comfortable). I pose the question again in a different way. If you were a snake or a human (which i know you are) would you like to live on a hard, flat surface all the time? maybe you've kept snakes both ways and choose for your own reasons to use paper. however, if you believe that the snakes are better off on paper than bedding then I feel you have little insight into the comfort levels (or lack thereof) being experienced by your snakes. Now I don't come to these forums to upset people. I am just trying to open a dialogue. one more note: There are very few flat, hard places in nature and i'll bet you rarely find a snake there for a very long period of time (perhaps warming on a piece of slate for instance). Now i know there are many hard surfaces in nature that snakes may call their home, but they aren't flat. Respectfully, Rusty

>>I know this question has been asked before, but what are the pros and cons of using sand as a substrate, and what are potential hazards of using it with young (5 mo. old) corn or kingsnakes?

My view points on sand;
I’ve been housing, snakes for about twelve years now on sand. I have tried different kinds of sand. The play sand has too many fines in it, could be harmful if the snake ingested to much at once. Be careful when feeding that the mice aren't damp where the sand will stick to the rodent. another problem with fine sand is the fines absorb up to much moisture, so a 1” feces spot will turn into a 3” spot, big coarse sands,(gravel)don't absorb anything, I use a cleaned (dust free) Monterey #2/12 grade kiln dried sand (its a smooth beach sand more or less). it’s kind of hard to find, I buy it at industrial supply stores, or sand and gravel supply. It’s used for sandblasting, it’s about 10-14 dollars for 90 lb. Bag. (I've also seen it in pet shops, $10.00 for a 10 lb bag. lol); Retains heat well, doesn't dry out reptiles skin like wood shavings might. I think it’s easy to clean, all I use, is a plastic spoon and paper plate, just scoop it up on to a plate and try to pick up most of moisture after each feeding, put the plate in plastic recycled grocery bags, tie a knot, and drop it into the trash can, EASY. I clean my tanks completely, about twice a year, remove all sand , and clean the tanks with bleach and water. I recycle my dirty sand, by putting it into a bucket and letting it soak in bleach and water for a few days. Then I stir it up with a stick. Push a hose to the bottom of the bucket until water runs clear on the overflow. I then pour it into sandbags and let It dry out till the following year.
A lot of people have talked against sand on the forums, and I just wanted to view some of my thoughts.
I have never had a problem with any of my snakes getting sick or dying yet. Just be careful when feeding that they don't digest a bunch of any substrate.
Some of the general care and maintenance books view sand as, (quote; a attractive, natural-looking and easily changeable ground medium.) They only talk about certain types of wood shavings (Quote: cedar, redwood and some snake keepers have suggested pine shaving are potentially harmful to snakes) Maybe I'm missing something here but I believe most snakes live on and in dirt and sandy soils.
BAD SHEDS;
I work construction, and the Three worst things to dry out my hands are, working in dirt, wet concrete, and believe it or not, handling lumber like 2by4s for a day or two. The sand that I use has no fines in it, and doesn't dry out the snakes skin. I very seldom have snakes with a bad shed.
I did a survey;
and had had emails from snake owners of snakes with problems that went away once they switched them from aspen to sand or other non-wood product - a grayband with runny nose and 2 different rosies that were regurging. The owner truly thought these individuals were sensitive to the aspen (or the conditions it created) because of their rapid turnaround once removed from the material.
Another owner emailed me;
I have to say I totally agree with you about the sand. As well, I have had several problems with my kings on aspen or pine bedding. Especially if it has broken down into little bits - it seems to give my snakes allergies. I have now had three kings that, while on the aspen, with cage temps ranging from 70 - 81 degrees, get alot of mucus in their throat and noses. When I have switched them off of that to the turf, two days later they are fine.
Anyway I just wanted to view a few good points about sand.

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R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html