Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Does anyone have any kind of expertise in this matter, or can direct me to an eager technician whose forte lies in genetic engineering? The technology exists today(though probably at great expense) to engineer practically any morph by, to put in crude laymans terms, mucking with DNA strands in a procedure known as DNA knockouts. I imagine a Leucistic Indigo Snake, WhiteSided Eastern King, maybe even a red corn king with a mole on it.

"Blessed are the Cheesemakers"-Brian of Nazareth

That's it Howie you've done it now!
Aaah! My ribs hurt I'm laughing so hard.
Better living through chemicals, that's Howie's motto.
You know where all doomed when a pharmacist starts mucking with DNA strands! LOL!!!

"maybe even a red corn king with a mole on it!"
-Phil
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I'll Google your YouTube
If you Yahoo! Myspace!

people are already working on such projects. however the one i am knowledgable of is far more (way Out) than you could imagine. you are right about one thing.............great expense. the reptile industry will one day soon be revolutionized. sorry, i can't elaborate any more than that. i'm going to stick with reptiles made the old fashioned way. rusty

Let me guess, you just got your reptiles magazine?

Before you can knock genes out or add genes you need to know what genes are there. This requires extensive research into the specific species and its time consuming and not cheap.

So despite the overwhelming interest that cutting edge scientists have in creating designer reptiles.....I think it will be a while.

You are right, the technology is there, and it will absolutely happen, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Any guesses on the first one???
my guess is a blue ball python(ahemm, I meant a blue pet rock)...

well if they do make new ones,,,just make sure they are engineered to clean their own cages,,,,lol
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Ball Python
Jungle Carpet Python
Eastern King
Mexican Black King
Sonoran Gopher
Aberrent Cal King
Anduran Milk
Hypo Brooks

I love the smell of aspen shavings in the morning...lol

"To serve man..it's...it's a cookbook!"

step away from the bar...it's closing time. Gimme the keys....
I'll call you a cab.
You're a cab.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

.
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I'll Google your YouTube
If you Yahoo! Myspace!

Doing that will make this hobby worthless. So a lab produces an outstanding snake. What would be the value. Are you going to pay thousands or hundreds or a couple bucks. You see, there is no reason to pay more then a couple bucks because, they will make more and prettier ones, on demand. It becomes a manifacturered product, not something you can make yourself. Therefore there is no value.

No offense, but you would be better off just painting snakes anyway you like.

If theres no value, they will seek other areas to apply their trade. You know, commodities, something with a large market value.

I seem to remember they did that with tropical fish. Something about a glow in the dark tetra(or some such thing) that fad lasted about two weeks.

I considered a glow in the dark tetra for all of 5 minutes... the fad died out because no one wanted to pay $300 for 1 stupid little fish that was only cool in the dark...
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~Maggie~

"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious."
1.1 Cal Kings
1.0 Mali Uromastyx
1.1 Brooksi
0.1 Red Belly Piranha

Hi there Frank,
Sounds like I struck a sensitive chord there. Sorry bout that. I'm not talking the great gobs of money(in a VERY short run-agreed) these "designer" snakes will bring, or making the hobby worthless.Far from it, I wouldn't trade the rewards of regular captive breeding for any other method. But value,commercialism and capitalism aside, I think it would be fascinating to see such a project come to fruition and as you said yourself, would produce a truly outstanding snake. The value of course would be in applying this one day to humans to produce truly outstanding people.Was not thinking of the damage , possibly irreparable, that this might cause. Again, my curiosity far outweighs any thoughts to dna knockouts being the possible ruination of herpetoculture as we know it. As my buddy Tony would opine, that is really thinking doom and gloom. I prefer to think of new horizons, applying scientific principles in new directions, and mainly sipping on a cold beer.

"what's brown and sounds like a bell? DUNG!!"-Eric Idle

"The value of course would be in applying this one day to humans to produce truly outstanding people"

WHAT????:O
You might get creamed from the anti-Hitlers, Howie.
Watchit!
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

>>You might get creamed from the anti-Hitlers, Howie.
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Aspire to inspire before you expire.

aspire to inspire before i expire?? them thar words make me perspire with a fire most dire in this shire.

"The value of course would be in applying this one day to humans to produce truly outstanding people"

??

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
George Santayana

Scott

Hi Scott, I challenge anyone who lived through the 60s to remember the past. to me at times most lucid I remember a pleasant haze at best.

Still waitin' for all those flashbacks we paid for,huh?


Hey! Lookout! There's a big*ss bug on me!

:Mark

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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Lol. i think some of us have entirely too much time on our hands.

Sounds nice I could use one about now, a legal haze that is!

Scott

hey Mark, whats happening? Thats just me conjecturing without thinking. that would be kind of like talking "master race" again wouldnt it? But I truly meant to produce people with souped up immune systems, and better longevity as compared to conquering armies. Besides, who's gonna attack me Mark? Everyone knows I am the most unmalignant persona on the forum.

My inventory of snakes:
A few

Not much around here Howie..Hoping for some cooler weather so my snakes will at least calm down some for a while and give me a break..
I know and was kidding sort of..but man, I've seen that phrase start a war!
Hoping to get up your way next season for some good ol' VA herpin'.
What's shakin' with those yeller thayeri?
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

cmon up here in late april-may time frame and we'll have a good old time stomping around here herpin'. i put my critters down end of october but it really hasnt been consistently cool enough yet to justify what i did, other than that most had already stopped feeding and were getting torpid(kind of like the feeling after thanksgiving dinner and beer). as for the yeller thayeri, i should produce some winners again, and all I can say about Tony is that he is back with a vengeance with thayeri this coming year. later dude, and see you for sure in 281 days.

"As they say in the sewer, here's mud in your eye."-Ed Norton

Hurry, scout the grave yards!!! HA HA HA J/K
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B

Finally someone else who is lighthearted on the forum. as long as Frankinsnake is not AbbyNormal.

Give him the seg-a give!!! The seg-a-give????
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

It's alive, it's alive!

Scott

Now we are getting silly. Now you have entered into my turf where I hold sway.

"Hate living, love dead."-Frankenstein 1939, the first dead head.

Wow, what knockers!! Sank you, herr doktor!
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Todd Hughes

Shhh! just don't say "Frau Blucher" or my horses will go crazy

I am just stating my opinion from lots of experience with these types of snakes.

The value of colubrids these days is not for profit, but for the love of the animal(99% of us). If they were manifactured in a lab. I do not think people would pay the cost to produce them, therefore, they are worthless.

Worth is the value over cost. In many cases, our snakes do not make money, but they provide a "worth or value". That worth is generally in the partipation of creating offspring(morphs or not)

Many of us old timers find "worth" from our experiences in the field. Again, what value is there in a genetically manipulated lab produced snake???????

Many here find value in rarity, what value is there from a lab produced snake(you can make as many as you want). Oh I imagine they can make limited numbers(and sign them) but that would not pay for the lab time.

So no, it does not strike a cord, it only strikes me as "another" bad idea.

The reality is, there are far better areas to apply that skill then making funny looking snakes. Far far far far better and important areas. Cheers

But you still cannot discount scientific curiosity and just plain old layman curiosity now can you, at least not mine. being a fellow old timer of 54, I do agree that nothing beats experiences in the field, even involving herping. But value is subjective and so what you stated is your opinion, and your opinion only. Sorry but there is merit in dna research and this would constitute a branch of it. This gives the idea value, to me anyway, and that is of course my opinion only.and I think a snake thus produced might be the most gorgeous animal one ever laid eyes upon.
so correct me if i am wrong as i can be slow on the uptake, but you are in fact very much for genetically engineering snakes? lol
by the way, and quite unrelated, any tips on successful breeding of blackhead pythons. i had success 2 yrs ago and nothing last year.
also, in your reading, did you ever come across the picture of the 11 foot plus eastern diamondback rattler from west palm beach, circa 1919, that appears totally unretouched? Your thoughts on that doozy of a picture.

Sorry your confusing seperate and different subjects. Your confusing the ability to create such a thing, and them actually doing it on a regular basis.

I am sure someday with will have the ability to gene splice with snakes. But I doubt that those with that ability will apply time and equipment to snake morphs for the pet trade. I can dream up a million much more valuable ways to apply such a skill.

About that 11 foot EDB, that has nothing to do with this subject at all, other then you like to dream.(nothing wrong with dreaming as long as it does not conflict with reality)

I first saw that pic is a little town south of lake okachobe(sp) at a reptile dealer that use to advertise in old sports and hunting magazines. I also worked at a central fla. reptile park. That park, advertised a large reward for any EDB over 7 foot. That reward has gone unclaimed for over 50 years. And that is only 7 foot. Also, there was plenty of debate over that pic.

But whether that pic was false or that snake was actually 9 foot(still a friggin giant) or indeed there was one EDB that somehow made it to 11 foot, has nothing to do with you or me or EDB's for that matter. It only would mean, one somehow reached that size. It would not mean, you or I or any of the tens of thousands of herpers in Fla. will find an 11 footer. The reality is, it never happened again.

In the area of dreaming, yes, the 11 foot EDB and you getting some factory made snake are most likely the same, they are just dreams. Good luck with that, cheers

I just got back from delivering some snakes for export to GladesHerp and in Robs office he had an old pic of a LARGE EDB,draped over a shovel handle held out in front of a Field worker in comparison to the man it looks 11' but he told me it actually was only 6.5'(kinda like fish pics hold it out close to the lense).he told me it was in S. Ga.It was an old faded B/W picture that coulda been from the early 1900s.it was huge.And does anyone remember the EDB skin on the wall in Monroe Station mid way between Naples and Miami on TamiamiTrail I know skins stretch but it was HUGE.......Chris

Its not like these snakes would just pop out of thin air in a labratory. The people who pull it off will have to be talented herpetologists and they will be elbow deep in snakes, and I would imagine that they would be in it for the curiousity, the snakes, and maybe a little money.

I do think your right about the fad... what do those tetras cost now $0.49?

How would it make our hobby worthless?

I agree with everything you said. If/when this takes place, the scientist(s) who accomplish this will have worked laboriously and at great expense, using cutting edge technology and specific expertise. It will be some time before they can be assembly line produced-which may or not be what Frank was referring to when he opined that it would be ruinous to herpetoculture. Hey , I have an insatiable curiosity here, and not only for producing a drop dead beautiful animal, but perhaps one that has an immunity to infection, or more tolerant of cold, or produces bigger healthier offspring.
I would also add a bit that a snake produced in a lab isn't the most terrible thing in the world. If we didn't have in vitro fertilization clinics, my son wouldn't have been born. and these institutes producing in vitro babies in no way affected normal reproduction worldwide. Neither would lab produced snakes affect, at least not ruinously, overall breeding programs by herpetoculturists.

sensitive or something.

I said, those manifacturered snakes would be worthless, then I explained their cost would be less what it took to make them.

I did not say it would ruin the hobby. But as we all know, there is very little or no profit in this hobby as it is. Unless your Reptile Industries or some such.

I also indicated that those with that ability(to create new snakes) would have the ability to make billions of dollars doing that in other areas, food, medicine, etc. So why would they waste their time, lab space, on snake morphs.

So yes, if you asked those doing that type of work, could this be done with snakes, I am sure, they would say yes, but that does not mean they will actually do it. At least not in our lifetime.

If I was to dream I would picture that sort of thing is a SLING BLADE senerio, you know, when not REAL snakes are left in the world. So they will create artificial ones. Cheers

as i stated in my post close to the top of this thread. sorry i can't go into specific detai. as you said frank, there is little or no profit in this hobby. most people do it because they love reptiles and making (hatching) reptiles. some of these hobbyist are wealthy. they can solicit researchers/scientists to make their wild creations in a lab. why would the researcher do it, you ask? because the private individual who wants the laboratory made morph is funding the researchers project. once successful the scientist will have a claim to fame that could launch his/her future carear as a scientist in genetic research. i'm not joking, at least one project is in the works. live another few years (probably sooner) and you will see it in your lifetime frank. if not for the scientific "Study" the project could be done inside a year easily. respectfully, rusty

Blade Runner thing, both very cool movies but totally different, LOL! MMHMM, Got any of those fried taters?
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Todd Hughes

i reiterate what i said before and will comment no further. besides you already said "in my opinion" in your original reply to the post, and everything you said is simply that, your opinion. suffice it to say, mine differs in some aspects to a very minor degree, in some diametrically.
i brought up the edb picture out of curiosity. it would have been marvelous if such a giant rattler really existed. i also brought the dna knockout question largely out of curiosity. seems you have a disdain for the curious, which is curious in itself. also seems to me, above many of the rest of the commenters on this forum,if not all, that you consider your viewpoints the law inviolate, and those with a valid but differing view are cannon fodder in your eyes and to be disdainfully dismissed. and hey, thats just my opinion. you can have the last word,Frank as i will not respond again, only stating that we agree to disagree, and that the dna knockout procedure will be a reality very very soon, despite your callously dismissing it. cheers right back to you