Reptile & Amphibian Forums

how come i cant find anyone that specialises in breeding black rat morphs(in my book this includes deckert's, everglades,yellow, texas, grey, white oaks, gulf hammock, greenish, and black) like i do with so many other species

Probably because breeding them won't make you any money. Once, decades ago, keeping and breeding snakes was all about having fun and, dare I say it, intellectual fullfillment. Once the 'high-end' mutants emerged, the unfortunate byproduct of this development is that snakes became 'investments'. As it turned out, these days Pantherophis obsoletus is regarded as a bad 'investment' by many 'professional breeders'. The good news is that certain mutant and locality specific morphs of this species have become rare and exclusive stuff. Anyone can buy an albino Python regius any time, anywhere. Now try to find an albino blotchless Yellow Ratsnake.

I think you're right about the lack of financial return, but I don't care. I like the obsolettus more than the guttatus. I don't have every type of obsolettus, but I would if I could afford it. Unfortunately, I had four clutches this year--one of solid blacks [17 in the clutch]; one of solid black, Het. white-albino [10 in the clutch]; one leucistic black x leucistic Texas [08 in the clutch]; and one orange-albino [09 in the clutch]--and I've sold only two hets-for for $35.00 each, not a good return.

I have some more photos, but here's one of myself and my big, male black rat snake (DoB, 2003) that I got from Christian Reynolds. I've just recently started giving him two adult mice per week. He may need a little more, perhaps. I'm 5'8", so he's maybe about 5' at this point.

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Gregg
The Corn Snake Pit

I'm not in it for the money either. I have a decent job and, unlike many hobbyists these days, I prefer to present myself as an amateur breeder and I really couldn't care less about dividend or impressing other hobbyists. Some of my friends wonder why I am doing this to myself, but for me the most important thing is keeping the snakes I actually like. Here's my current stocklist:

1.1 Baird's Ratsnake (Vivid).
1.1 Black Ratsnake 'Grape'.
1.0 North Carolina Greenish Ratsnake.
1.1 Yellow Ratsnake 'White Sided'.
1.1 Yellow Ratsnake 'Albino Blotchless'.
1.1 Everglades Ratsnake.
0.2 White Oak Ratsnake.
0.2 Texas Ratsnake 'Leucistic'.
0.0.11 'Albino Blotchless' x 'White Sided' triple het. Yellow Ratsnake.

PS. Cool pic, BTW.

I share that frustration, and as someone who is usually more of a fan of the standard variants than the morphs (I have yet to see a prettier black rat snake than the black ones I catch in PA and NJ), it further frustrates me that the ones that come up most often seem to be the albinos, rusties, etc. I've been trying to get my hands on a standard black rat, but thanks to recent PA regulations that forbid the sale or importation of native herps (which I can't say I strongly oppose) I can only acquire one by adopting one in state, having someone in PA give one to me, or catching one myself in PA.

Billy

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Phillyherping

i think it is strange that there are so many laws against the keeping, breeding, and sales of the most common and widespread "subspecies" of ratsnake in the U.S. if anything habitat fragmentation and farmland are the biggest threat in most areas. in all the areas i herp in there are more D.O.R.s than live animals. i think its time for a law change. if people can't purchase a common native snake from a resputable breeder i don't see much of a future for the herpetological industries. i guess what i am saying is if you won't stop drivers from driving and you won't stop farmers from cultivating their fields than don't stop reptile breeders from breeding wild morphs. if we cant evolve than we're all doomed!

The new regs are frustrating, and I think they did go overboard. I think a possession limit of 2 or 3 would have accomplished the same goal (rather than 1). As a funny way I would have broken the law last year if it had been in effect in '06, a female brown snake I briefly kept had dropped 13 babies, putting me waaaay over the limit until I released them with her at the capture site.

I think a rule against sale but allowing importation would have been okay, but I do understand the rule against sale of black ratsnakes. I've seen references to declining populations of black ratsnakes in eastern PA, and although I'm sure it has more to do with habitat destruction, habitat fragmentation, and road mortality, they maybe could use some help. All in all, even though I think they've gone overboard, I think they're acting out of the right motives and they're dealing with a tricky area to regulate.

Billy

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Phillyherping

Snakes are so good at hiding from us, I can't believe that collecting would ever be a serious conservation issue except for dennning animals like Timbers. I can't escape the feeling that the move to legislate/regulate keeping native herps is pushed by someone in the regulatory body who wants to put a feather in their cap and those 'crazy snake keepers' are easy to pick on. I fled Ohio in part because of all the urban sprawl. I just could not stand seeing another wood lot or farm field be turned into a subdivision. Now I blissfully live in central Louisiana where there are far, far more trees than people, and sprawl is something an alligator does on a log.
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Campti Sam