Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I bought an 05' "female" borneo blood python from a well known east coast breeder who's been breeding snakes for the last 3 decades. I bought the snake at a reptile expo in June 06'. Since I have known and dealt with this breeder since I was 12 (I'm now 21) and knowing his history with breeding I didn't 2nd guess the genders of the snakes he sold me. I bought a trio 1.1 05' marbles, and 0.1 05' borneo. I started cycling about 2 weeks ago and have the genders separated. the male marble in one cage and the female marble and female borneo in another. I noticed when I got up for work 11/27 that the borneo female seemed to be attempting to copulate with the marble female. I couldn't check then so I made it a point to probe the snake when I returned home from work. When I got home the snakes looked the same. I probed it to about 8 subscales. At this point I placed it with the male marble. What followed next I took pics of. The "female" borneo tried copulating with the male marble. I e-mailed the guy and here's the conversation:

The normal female borneo I got from you at the June Expo is a male. I can bring it to Hamburg if you would like to check it for yourself. If it does turn out to be a male what would you like to do about it?
thanks,
Matt

Matt, You can bring it if you want but it is a femal;e. They probe depper than other pythons & females will actually pop out too & looks very similar to a male but smaller. As far as what I will don about it, well now you got it in June 5 mos ago so I can't honestly do anything at this point

So you're telling me that if it does turn out to be a male you won't take it back? How many bags of rodent food would I have to buy for them to be $10/bag? A guy offered me $12/bag at Hamburg for the same food.

These are pics of the normal borneo and the male marble:
I sent him the 3 pics at the bottom of the snake he sold me as a female attempting to copulate with my male.

Matt, I cannot sell the lab block @ $10 per bag. It costs me $9 plus
gas to pick it up. The cheapest I go is $13.50 to p[eople who buy @
least 10 bags at a time. I have to find out who sells it for $12 as my
rep gave me southern Pa & Md & no Va as exclusive sales area for me. As
far as the snake goes I don't take snakes back at all from anyone. My
charge card reciepts even state " All Livestock Sales Final---No
Refunds or Exchanges" so people using credit cards can't get
chargebacks if they decide they don't want it for some reason.
Considering this has been almost 6 mos you tell me any other business
where you can buy something & then return it 6 mos later. Sorry

Now you don't have to tell me that I should have probed the snake when I got it because I know that but considering the snake wasn't the nicest blood i've seen, is about 4', and that this breeders experience with snakes exceeds the amount of years i've been alive I didn't 2nd guess him. Also female bloods probe to 3-5 subscales which isn't much different to the 2-4 that female balls do.

Also, in his 2nd e-mail to me he talks about what his charge card receipts state which has nothing to do with me since I paid with cash, nor have I ever gotten one from him. I definitely feel screwed especially since i've bought about $10k worth of snakes from this person and there has been a couple of other incidences when i've either had a snake that was sold out from under me etc... Being young, naive, and loyal I still dealt with this person since they were really the first person I bought snakes from and I felt they looked at me as more than "just a customer," but I guess not.

One thing to other breeders is don't be a** holes towards your customers, you'll make much more if you treat them with respect.

I'm just writing this to get people's opinion on the situation. Any feedback is appreciated.
thanks in advance,
Matt Oakley

It really doesn't matter what this guy's "policy" is... the LAW is on your side. He took payment in exchange for one male and one female animal. In return, you actually received two males.

He is in the wrong. Point this out to him. That same receipt that he wants to use as "proof" that you can't return the animal will also serve as "proof" that you paid for one thing and received another.

The bottom line is you were mislead. Since you entered into this purchase on the basis of "good faith" and he broke that trust - you now have the ability to either go to the credit card company and get a charge back or demand that he replace the male with a female of equal value.

As far as the amount of time that has lapsed... that may be against you to an extent. Check with the credit card company. Since you purchased an animal and some animals can be difficult to sex until they are more mature you may have a little leeway here... I'm not sure though.

Man, you are really cross-posting this sucker!

Honestly, I don't agree with the guy's tone, but I can't say I disagree with him completely. You bought the animal months ago, and you never checked the sex. Also, did he give you a guarantee in writing that it was a female? If he didn't, it would be very difficult to build a case against him in court.

This has happened to me before, so I know how you feel, but unfortunetly, there is not a lot you can do at this point. If I were the breeder I would compensate you just because it is good business. But, this guy obviously doesn't care about keeping you as a costumer, so I would shop elsewhere in the future!
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Thanks,
Amy
My Boids

Yes, I wanted to get a handfull of opinions. Many people look at things many different ways and I just wan ted to also... He didn't give me a guarantee other than his work which I took seriously. I'm not planning to persue this legally anyway.

I felt the same way, I know if I sold a snake to someone as female and it turned out to be a male i'd feel like I owed them something also if males were worth less than females.

That's what I plan to do, not many people can say a certain return buyer has bought $10 worth of product from them and i'd think he'd want to at least give me peace of mind and not possibly loose a customer over a couple hundred...

thanks for your time,
Matt

Thanks for your time. The snake was 2 years old at the time I bought it. Most people are saying take it as a learning experience and move on. I thought legally I was in the right but I wan't planning on going that far eventhough I was counting on breeding this snake this season.
thanks for your time,
Matt