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I bought an 05' "female" borneo blood python from a well known east coast breeder who's been breeding snakes for the last 3 decades. I bought the snake at a reptile expo in June 06'. Since I have known and dealt with this breeder since I was 12 (I'm now 21) and knowing his history with breeding I didn't 2nd guess the genders of the snakes he sold me. I bought a trio 1.1 05' marbles, and 0.1 05' borneo. I started cycling about 2 weeks ago and have the genders separated. the male marble in one cage and the female marble and female borneo in another. I noticed when I got up for work 11/27 that the borneo female seemed to be attempting to copulate with the marble female. I couldn't check then so I made it a point to probe the snake when I returned home from work. When I got home the snakes looked the same. I probed it to about 8 subscales. At this point I placed it with the male marble. What followed next I took pics of. The "female" borneo tried copulating with the male marble. I e-mailed the guy and here's the conversation:

The normal female borneo I got from you at the June Expo is a male. I can bring it to Hamburg if you would like to check it for yourself. If it does turn out to be a male what would you like to do about it?
thanks,
Matt

Matt, You can bring it if you want but it is a femal;e. They probe depper than other pythons & females will actually pop out too & looks very similar to a male but smaller. As far as what I will don about it, well now you got it in June 5 mos ago so I can't honestly do anything at this point

So you're telling me that if it does turn out to be a male you won't take it back? How many bags of rodent food would I have to buy for them to be $10/bag? A guy offered me $12/bag at Hamburg for the same food.

These are pics of the normal borneo and the male marble:

Matt, I cannot sell the lab block @ $10 per bag. It costs me $9 plus
gas to pick it up. The cheapest I go is $13.50 to p[eople who buy @
least 10 bags at a time. I have to find out who sells it for $12 as my
rep gave me southern Pa & Md & no Va as exclusive sales area for me. As
far as the snake goes I don't take snakes back at all from anyone. My
charge card reciepts even state " All Livestock Sales Final---No
Refunds or Exchanges" so people using credit cards can't get
chargebacks if they decide they don't want it for some reason.
Considering this has been almost 6 mos you tell me any other business
where you can buy something & then return it 6 mos later. Sorry

Now you don't have to tell me that I should have probed the snake when I got it because I know that but considering the snake wasn't the nicest blood i've seen, is about 4', and that this breeders experience with snakes exceeds the amount of years i've been alive I didn't 2nd guess him. Also female bloods probe to 3-5 subscales which isn't much different to the 2-4 that female balls do.

Also, in his 2nd e-mail to me he talks about what his charge card receipts state which has nothing to do with me since I paid with cash, nor have I ever gotten one from him. I definitely feel screwed especially since i've bought about $10k worth of snakes from this person and there has been a couple of other incidences when i've either had a snake that was sold out from under me etc... Being young, naive, and loyal I still dealt with this person since they were really the first person I bought snakes from and I felt they looked at me as more than "just a customer," but I guess not.

One thing to other breeders is don't be a** holes towards your customers, you'll make much more if you treat them with respect.

I'm just writing this to get people's opinion on the situation. Any feedback is appreciated.
thanks in advance,
Matt Oakley

Wow man !!!!

Sorry about the hassle your going through.

I have raised my first blood 4 years before I found out it's a male.

I have since then learned to sex the snakes when I get them.

I think it's my RESPONSIBILITY to make sure that the snake is healthy and properly sexed before I buy it, or right when I recieve it in the mail.

I recently avoided a disaster by sexing a female boa that was sold to me as a male.

I spent $2500.00 for that Jungle boa.I was able to replace it because I sexed it upon arrival.

Mistakes happen ALL the time.I have made them.

Especially when you hear about these situations happening at least once every year.

As for you being a loyal customer for 10 years.......

If I was the owner I would have TRADED or REFUNDED your monies due to the fact that we had a business relashionship for that long.

Good Luck and I hope it works out for you in the end.
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Ashley Lopez's Black Forest Constrictors.

blackforestconstrictors@gmail.com

WWW.BLACKFORESTCONSTRICTORS.COM

I have learned my lesson and will be checking the sex of everything from now on. I just took this person's word since they've been breeding for 30 years and sexing a noncooperative 4' blood isn't an easy task. He has calmed down in the time i've had him and I was now comfertable probing him without a bodysuit, lol.
thanks for your time,
Matt

I agree with Ash. Accidents happen and even the best can mis-sex an animal. I had this happen and it was years before I was able to confirm this fact even after sexing it myself. How a breeder handles this situation varies and in some cases depends on the nature of the sale, the customer and what type of guarantee they feel they are willing to offer. In my case, I received two females rather than a pair. I received a male for free about five-six years later. This is an exceptional response and not one I would expect. At a minimum, I would personally offer a deep discount to a customer for a replacement or even free.

I did do an exchange two years ago after I mis-sexed a pastel and felt obligated to give one of my holdbacks from the same clutch. The buyer lost no ground (actually gained since my holdbacks are really nice and I felt good I did the right thing. My two cents...
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Thanks for your time,
Matt