Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Been brewing about this for hours- but better to help someone prevent than sit and grieve...

I just lost my prized male bumblebee today...and am heartbroken...

But with experience comes education, so I thought I'd pass it along to help others- jump on me for my husbandry if you like, at this point not much else would hurt...

When I have an animal that is having a difficult shed, I soak them. Smaller ones get a quart-sized rubbermaid container a little more than half full of warm water. A half hour in there and they peel clean. I've sometimes left them in there by mistake for a few hours and found them completely shed, no problem!

Well today- my male bumble (I produced him) had a bad shed (head only) so I decided to soak him. Imagine my surprise when I came back about an hour later to find him dead- drowned. Usually they support their body on the bottom and stick their head above water to breathe- apparently he did not, just drowned.

So my advice is- when soaking, use only an inch of warm water and make sure the top has plenty of ventilation. I wish I had taken better care to prevent this, but what can I do now?

Shown is a pic of his grandpa...

Heartbroken,

Steve Harrison
Jacksonville, FL

Steve, sorry for your loss. Not to jump on you, but you said it would be ok.....I would never consider soaking an animal in a container half full of water, much less half an inch. If I have an animal with a stuck shed, the best approach for me is to put them in a container with a soggy towel. I then lay a portion of the towel over them so they have something to rub against. This usually does the trick and you don't have the risk of drowning.

Take care.
Brandon Osborne
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

Hey,

That's a great idea, maybe this post alone will save an animal, and that alone is worth the post. I sure will follow your advice and do that from now on....

Steve

Try not to let this get you down. Everyone of us have been in your shoes at one point of another. We are only human and sometimes we make mistakes. Don't beat yourself up over it. Accidents happen.

Brandon Osborne
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www.brandonosbornereptiles.com

I am sorry to hear about your loss...and i know that there really isn't too much any of us can say to make you feel better...my snakes used to have a hard time shedding...especially in winter because we use wood heat which kills humidity...so what we have done is turn thier water bowl into a hide box...we took a large storage container we got from walmart..bout a 10x8 and 3 inches deep and surrounded it with flat river rocks and have one over the top of it leaving about a quarter of it exposed and have artificial ivy vines over the exposed part so they could come and go as they please...it is nothing for us to go looking for em and they be in there soaking...since then sheds have been pretty much complete

Steve, I'm sorry to hear about your loss.
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Louis Kirkland
Cornerstone Reptiles

the years and money, plus time we put into these projects- then that moment they pip from the egg....ohh man, it was soo exciting to see that little head.

Steve

Unfortunately, education can come at a price.

Sorry for your loss.
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www.HeathersHerps.com

-Ohh, what a Lady-

Balls for Life, Baby!

Steve, I'm sorry for your loss. Try the towel trick from now on Bro. It works.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

That freaking sucks Steve. Was he a bad wobbler? I bet it is because he was a spider. Don't beat yourself up too bad. Hopefully you can make a bunch more this season.
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John Vandegrift

Nahh, he didn't wobble at all. The worst part is, he was my replacement spider- so I sold his dad- no more spiders at all.

grrrrrr....

Thanks for the words, John- hope the wife is doing well- how is the baby coming?

The ASF's I got from you won't stop breeding- any suggestions?

thanks,

Steve

Of course I'm watching football LOL. Wife's doing fine thanks for asking. At least now you have an excuse to spend more $$ on snakes.
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John Vandegrift

Sorry for your loss.

I have a female pos pos het pied that I hatched years ago that never sheds right and always must have a long full body soak. Incidentally she may also not have a tongue and only eats mice so not sure what went wrong with her. She is big now but I soak her in a 10 gallon aquarium half full and have never had a problem. She can touch the bottom and support herself and doesn't appear to have to work at it at all. That's not a lot of experience to go by but I also had assumed all balls where good at floating.

I remember a week or two ago someone posted about a spider that seemed to be getting stuck head down in it's water bowl. Even though you hadn't noticed wobbling in this one I wonder if it got confused under the stress of the water and paniced and wasn't able to find the top.

Also, do you know for sure what the water temp was? I used to use a thermometer until I felt that I had a good feel for mid 80 deg water but am now thinking I should probably dig one back out and double check myself next time. Water transfers heat very well and what feels like warm water to us might well be 100 deg and I would think could be fatal to a snake. Of course you also don't want to chill them so it's a fine line and best to measure rather than guess.

Sorry for your loss.

so sorry for your loss. my 07 female spider had a bad shed today and i was gonna put her in a small container with 1/2in of water tonight. im glad i read this post before i did that. by posting this u potentially saved my snake so thanks very much for posting. and again so sorry for your loss.

Steve, I'm sorry for your loss, but we learn from it, don't beat your self down bud, live and learn.

When I see my snakes going to shed I use a spary bottle and spray the back of there enclosure in the AM and again in the PM to raise the humidity until they shed. That way the bottom is not all wet and they still have a dry spot to go to. If I don't catch them in time and they shed in patches I spary them and the snake will do the rest in taking it off.

I hope this help a little.

I'll pray for you to get some more Bees if you plan to breed for them again.

Charlie

Oh that totally sux. Sorry to hear.

I just hold the snake in my sink & run lukewarm water on it while I gently rub the bad shed spot. This has always worked well for me so far.

Sorry for your loss...best wishes on your future projects!
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Thanks,
Amy
My Boids

there is one thing that needs to be said that got left out....not only don't beat yourself up, but GOOD FOR YOU!!! It takes a big person to admit a mistake, especially when you risk your peers looking down on you. You have likely helped a lot of people to avoid that mistake in the future, so congratulations on having the integrity to share that with us all!!!!!!
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James.....
"Curiosity killed the cat, but satisfaction brought the beast back."

and that just plain sucks. I have seen this before, only with a chondro. I like using a sweat box. No chance of drowning and it gets the skin off 99% of the time with no issues.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

I know exactly how you feel. I did the same thing just a few days ago but I didn't have the guts to post it on here b/c I was afraid I would get my ass chewed and frankly, I deserved it.
I did the exact same thing. I put too much water in and I came back a little while later and I found her. Fortunately she was just a small normal female and not one of my morphs. But it still sucks and it was 100% my fault. I know exactly how you feel. Once again, I'm really sorry for your loss. I know how you feel.

Very sorry for your loss - but I'm glad you shared - I hope others can learn from it.

A couple of things to remember when dealing with bad sheds:

1. Watch your water temps - not too hot.

2. It doesn't take more than a couple of minutes in the water (10-15 minutes max)to loosen stuck shed - don't leave your snake unattended.

3. when soaking only fill the container enough so the snake can sit on the bottom of the tub and the water will go half way up his sides. The snake shouldn't have to swim or ball up to stay above the water.

4. If using a wet towel or pillowcase - do not leave your snake unattended - they can suffocate easily inside your linens (and use the cheapy linens with the low thread count as they allow for more air exchange).

5. Don't put an animal that is soaking or in a towel/pillowcase over/under a heat source.

Off the top of my head those are the major warnings.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Insert Silly Quote Here

Oh Steve.. I'm very very sorry.
Thank you thank you for posting your experience here, I'm sure it will help many caregivers & hopefully save some snakes.

-Tami*

One thing not mentioned it the bobbel head issue. I think a "normal ball" would have been fine. The spiders issue made him unable to come up.
Sorry for your loss.

What a ridiculous comment.
JSpythons just posted he/she had a normal drown in the same manner. I think it was the water that did it, not the genetics.

Although with the hatchling weird head movement, I can see where you might get that impression. The 'bobble' of spiders would not have made him "unable" to come up, the only time I've seen it is when one gets ready to eat as a hatchling, it gets so excited it can't seem to aim right...

It certainly doesn't prevent them from normal functioning, and has never been an issue. They are still my favorite morph.

Steve

Ohh ...I'm sorry you guys must own spiders, and they all do it.

Be that as it may, it doesn't absolve you from the idiocy that is your post. The spider drowned because it's a spider? Why did the normal drown?

I've only just now heard of normals drowning. I also thought being a spider might have had something to do with this drowning. If some spiders when excited can't tell which way is up in their cage it would seem logical that could also be a problem in water. There is still much debate as to if all spiders have some degree of equilibrium impairment or not. But apparently the safe bet is not to soak any ball pythons although I've gotten away with it for some time.

Has anyone ever had any ball python drown in their water bowl?

I put one of my favorite big females down in her water bowl, and watched her a moment and then she kinda of twitched. I pulled her out of there really quickly after that and she hung limp in my hand. Turns out she was fine and she survived and all, but I was completely freaked out. Coming from rainbow boas, where you put them down in there water and they stop, drink some, then slide through the water I was so shocked that a snake would do that. Needless to say, I now put her directly onto substrate.

Hi Steve,

Wow, that's awful I am so sorry .

A few years ago a friend and I bought some rescue animals all in bad shape. She ended up taking them home, and one had really bad shed. She filled a tub partway with warm water and put the snake in (she was standing there watching, and it was only in the water a minute before its head went under and it died. She pulled it right away but it was gone. Could have been b/c the snake was very weakened, could have been heart, who knows. But, neither of us ever soak snakes now. I'll put them in 1/4 of an inch of water and let them splash around for a few minutes while I watch that's it.

Christy