Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been looking up different ways to build myBurms permanaent enclosure and all of the different materials avaliable. I see alot of people use melamine for the walls, when I looked up melamine I saw that it was made from fermaldahide and I heard that fermaldihaide can kill animals Is this anything to worry about or just a false alarm?

Any pics of cages or ideas would help. Thanks

The formaldehyde in melamine is only a problem if it is ingested or if fumes from burning melamine is inhaled. So, it's safe to use melamine as caging material.

Melamine is waterproof but some people suggest an extra layer of protection in the botom 4 inches or so of the cage (cage floor & 4 inches or so up the walls) for water spills, urates, etc...

All joints in a melamine cage need to be sealed good with 100% silicone and all bare edges need to be covered sealed somehow to where the particle board that the melamine is affixed to is protected This usually calls for the use of edge banding or polyurethane in the areas of sliding glass doors or most any other door areas.

One reason some people don't like using melamine is because of the particleboard that it's affixed to. When the inside of melamine boards get wet it practically desinegrates like sand thru an hour glass, it will fall apart real easy.

I've got plans & material for rack-type cages but haven't built a melamine cage, yet. In theory, I believe that if the joints & edges are all sealed properly there shouldn't be any problems.

However, for my burmese python cages that I hope to start on in a month or so I will be using 3/4" cabinet-grade plywood and will seal the inside with a two-part epoxy kit designed for flooring.

Probably the only reason I'm using plywood instead of melamine for the bigger, python, cages, is for appearance. I like a natural wood grain look better than melamine.

One thing you need to keep in mind when desiging a large cage is the ability to move, relocate, the cage. An 8' x 4' x 2 1/2' cage won't fit through the doorway of most interior rooms, no matter how you turn it. For such situations I suggest a 2-part cage that can be fastened together once it's moved into the room.

If the cage is always going to be in a garage or a room with double doors, no problem.

Hope this helps!

Have a good one!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Here is a pic of one of our set-ups. These are about 7'x 2 1/2'x 18". We use melamine instead of plywood. The top two are gray melamine and the bottom two are maple melamine. If you have a store in your area that sells hardwood, they probably will sell different colors and wood grains of melamine. Home depot only sells white. Melamine doesn't soak up moisture and is easy to clean. We also caulk the inside so it doesn't leak. We use a router to recess an area about 3/8" on the outside of the bottom of the cage and use 4 11"x12" flexwatt stapled to the bottom so the heat doesn't have to go through the whole 3/4" melamine. We also staple reflectix (it's bubble wrap with aluminum foil on either side)to the bottom to make sure the heat goes up into the cage and not down into the cage below.

Hope this helps.
Randy

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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

Randy,
I've heard that there is a difference in quality between the melamine at the big DIY stores and what you order from a lumber yard or place like you mentioned. Do you know if there's any truth to it?

I suspect there is as I'm in the floorcovering biz and I know that, in general, the vinyl, carpet, hardwood, ceramic tile at the DIY stores is a slightly lesser grade than what you get from a floorcovering dealer.

Another reason I suspect so is because I found a lumber yard willing to order one of the nicer finishes of melamine and it was going to cost me about $45 per 4 x 8 sheet. The DIY stores get $25 for the white melamine they sell and I've yet to find one that would order any of the other finishes for me. Kept getting the run around.

I know I've told ya before but I'll say it again, "nice cages."

Later!
Mike
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the compliment on the cages. I haven't bought any melamine from a box store in years, but I think it's the same. The difference is the box stores only sell white and a lot of it, so they can sell it cheaper. The place I buy mine from is a wholesale place, minimum order, tax id, all that stuff. I pay $20 for white, gray and black are $28 and oak and maple are $33. Remember this is a place the public can't go, so your $45 melamine is probably about right.

We were using the gray melamine, because we thought the white would be too bright in racks and cages. Now we use only the maple, it's amazing how authentic it looks. We are building cabinets for a clients kitchen right now out of real maple and I have compared the melamine to the plywood and they look the same.

I looked at the link you posted on Fooooooood below and found some interesting info. If you have a chance look at my two posts and let me now your opinion.

Later,
Randy
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

Thanks Randy!

I had narrowed my choices down to either maple or almond finish and was going to go with the almond. That maple does look good.

The reason I went with cabinet grade ply instead is more for the natural finish. I love working with wood to bring out the grain, manipulating it. I just wish I was good at it Ha! I can't tell you how many pieces of ply I set aside while getting the 9 or 10 sheets I got. I'm a picky rascal.

Of course, any money saved from the price difference between the ply & almond melamine will be offset from staining/sealing. And that's not even considering the extra work.

I'll take a look at your comments in the food thread & post there.

Catch ya later!
Mike
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Mike,

The only thing I want to caution you on is cure time. You said you would seal the corners with 100% silicone. The silicone takes 30 days to cure, that's why we use caulk that has no silicone in it. I would also check the cure time on the epoxy you were talking about.

I'm not saying you don't know about this, but I know many people think when silicone dries it is cured. It emits toxic fumes for up to 30 days. If you lay out a bead of it and come back 2 weeks later and break it in half you will still smell the fumes. I used to keep fish and had to reseal tanks on occasion. I found out the hard way, lost most of the fish in the tank before I figured it out.

Later,
Randy
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

Thanks for the "Heads up," Randy!

Here are some links to threads in the Cage & Habitat forum. They're about monitor (varanids) cages but the process could be used for other reptile cages, too.

forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1417765,1417765

forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1419170,1419170

I keep going back & forth between using 2-part epoxy or a water-based polyurethane for the inside. The outside will be water-based poly.

Thanks!
Mike
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Mike,

Water based poly isn't as good as the oil based poly when it comes to sealing, but then you have that cure time again. Cure time isn't a big deal if you aren't in a hurry. I usually build a cage because I need it right now. The epoxy would be the most durable.

Later,
Randy
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

> > > Cure time isn't a big deal if you aren't in a hurry. I usually build a cage because I need it right now.

Ha! I'm only a year behind schedule, no hurry. Hahahaha!!!

If I had any sense I'd just go ahead and stain & seal all the plywood I'm planning on using and make my cuts when I get ready to build and then touch up edges, etc... However, that would require some free time. I have neither. No sense & no free time.

I thought maybe you'd build me a few for Christmas; but I guess not, huh? Heeheehee!!!

Thanks!
Mike
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

Sure , I'll get those cages done, but you didn't mention Christmas of what year. Haha

I work my 40 hour job(I work for the phone company), run the reptile business and the woodworking business, I don't have a lot of spare time. Michelle does a lot to keep things running, she feeds and cleans all the reptiles(120 snakes) and she is my finisher on the woodworking. I keep her running. My 12 year old son helps a lot, we've got him cleaning cages. Life in the fast lane, right.

The funny thing is when we don't have a lot going on, I start looking aroud the house for something to do.

Later,
Randy
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com

I'm getting cages in from Animal Plastics this week or next, and I really hope I don't need to wait 30 days for the caulk to seal. I don't know what kind of sealant they send, though. If I need to replace it myself, what should I look for? I'm not a builder, so could you be very specific?

I think it's called "painter's caulk". It usually says silicone free or 0% silicone.
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Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199
info@artinscales.com