Reptile & Amphibian Forums

okay, so i have a 5ft female (appx. 5lbs) hogg island boa. she is a late '05, so about 2.5 years old... i was planning on breeding her next year... she eats one - two large f/t rats per week.

i just recently bought a male for her...he is an '06.

i have noticed that lately, the female has been DESTROYING her cage. she crumples the newspaper, goes under it, tips her water bowl, throws her hide box all over the cage, and tries to crawl into the lip in the top of the vision cage.

the male's cage is above hers...so i was wondering...

is this normal behavior? is she trying to tell me she is ready to breed?

she just started doing it about a week or two after i got the male...

what do you guys think?

She's 5 feet, and she's not 2.5 but 2 years old since you said she was a late '05. And she's a Hogg, a dwarf, and you feed her two large rats a week. What's wrong with this picture?

You have a dwarf the size of my biggest giant suriname girl at that age. Stop pushing your snake unless you want it to die very young. Boas pushed to that degree don't live long. It selfish of you to do this just to take her babies. You should either be ashamed or learn more.
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Caden Chapman
slithering.serpents@gmail.com
http://slitheringserpents.com

wow.

i understand what you are saying, but i am not pushing her.

either i wasn't clear enough, or you misunderstood me...either way, she has been eating 1 large f/t rat per week, a few people, including a breeder of hoggs suggested trying 2 per week to get her ready for breeding next year. when i tried feeding her 2, she took them, but wouldn't eat the next week...so i waited another week and gave her one. to clarify, she will take ONE every week, or TWO every TWO weeks.

i wasn't even planning on breeding her until a few months ago. she has been eating ONE appropriately sized rodent per week her entire life. there was one point where i was concerned she was getting over weight and i took her down to one every 2 weeks, but she became aggressive and forum members on THIS site suggested going back to one per week...which solved the problem.

i am by no means an expert. and yes, i have made mistakes, who hasn't? but i have good intentions.

even if she was ready to breed now, i wouldnt even attempt it. from what i have read/observed female snakes should not be bred until the age of 3. and i am debating on holding off another year just to be safe...my hogg is my favorite snake, and i don't want anything bad to happen to her.

i would NEVER push something to the point of death to make a profit. that is disgusting. and as jscrick has said, surinames and hoggs are two different snakes which have different ways of surviving.

i just think that the people on this forum should work to help one another instead of attacking people for whatever they possibly can...i mean, isn't that the point of this site? to unite people with common interests & help people out?
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1.1.0 Hogg Island Boa
0.1.0 Albino Columbian Boa
1.0.0 Carpet Python
0.0.1 Red Albino Cornsnake
1.0.0 Pastel Ball Python
0.1.0 Cinnamon Ball Python
0.0.1 Aberrant California Kingsnake
1.0.0 Greek Tortoise
1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Hypo Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Leopard Toad
2.2.0 Dogs
1.2.0 Cats
1.0.0 Rabbit
1.1.0 Hissing Cockroaches
....................................

Shed Your Fears!
www.freewebs.com/ShedYourFears

I agree with your response... don't let the experts squash your desire to learn.

but - hey! good luck with that Hogg!
I'm a newbee when it comes to breeding, but I think the female might be trying to tell you something.. If I was you I would definitely put him with her just to try and learn something.
after all, they are your boas and you have to learn somehow.
the other things you could try is to change something else in her environment - she could be trying to say something else too I suppose... too hot, too cool, wants a different hide..? more or less humidity?? I was just thinking the other day, that boas don't talk or even bark.. it seems they can't communicate nearly as good as my dogs can. so we obviously need to watch their behavior and learn how to interpret (sp?) it as much as possible.

as long as we learn from our mistakes.. it all comes out good in the wash - or at least that's how I figure it for myself. but I could be figuring it wrong I suppose..

Patrick

When one post to a public forum depicting a scenario as you did
one should expect abit of negative criticism.
Based on the length and the defensive content of this message doesnt lend much to your defense.

If you followed some bad advice and now have a better understanding,then take it and move forward here.
A two year old Hog Isle will thrive on one rat every two weeks.Three years of age,one rat every three weeks.Non breeders from 4 years on up will still do just as well on (1)large rat every FOUR Weeks.

I have many cages of animals to support and discredit the starvation opinions many assume with such feeding routines.

>>wow.
>>
>>i understand what you are saying, but i am not pushing her.
>>
>>either i wasn't clear enough, or you misunderstood me...either way, she has been eating 1 large f/t rat per week, a few people, including a breeder of hogs suggested trying 2 per week to get her ready for breeding next year. when i tried feeding her 2, she took them, but wouldn't eat the next week...so i waited another week and gave her one. to clarify, she will take ONE every week, or TWO every TWO weeks.
>>
>>i wasn't even planning on breeding her until a few months ago. she has been eating ONE appropriately sized rodent per week her entire life. there was one point where i was concerned she was getting over weight and i took her down to one every 2 weeks, but she became aggressive and forum members on THIS site suggested going back to one per week...which solved the problem.
>>
>>i am by no means an expert. and yes, i have made mistakes, who hasn't? but i have good intentions.
>>
>>
>>even if she was ready to breed now, i wouldnt even attempt it. from what i have read/observed female snakes should not be bred until the age of 3. and i am debating on holding off another year just to be safe...my hogg is my favorite snake, and i don't want anything bad to happen to her.
>>
>>i would NEVER push something to the point of death to make a profit. that is disgusting. and as jscrick has said, surinames and hoggs are two different snakes which have different ways of surviving.
>>
>>i just think that the people on this forum should work to help one another instead of attacking people for whatever they possibly can...i mean, isn't that the point of this site? to unite people with common interests & help people out?
>>-----
>>1.1.0 Hogg Island Boa
>>0.1.0 Albino Columbian Boa
>>1.0.0 Carpet Python
>>0.0.1 Red Albino Cornsnake
>>1.0.0 Pastel Ball Python
>>0.1.0 Cinnamon Ball Python
>>0.0.1 Aberrant California Kingsnake
>>1.0.0 Greek Tortoise
>>1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
>>1.0.0 Hypo Leopard Gecko
>>1.0.0 Leopard Toad
>>2.2.0 Dogs
>>1.2.0 Cats
>>1.0.0 Rabbit
>>1.1.0 Hissing Cockroaches
>>....................................
>>
>>Shed Your Fears!
>>www.freewebs.com/ShedYourFears
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TnK

I do have some CA forms that eat very little. Mostly take fresh killed small mice left in the cage at night. Nicaraguan and Corn Island males for example. They refuse as often as accept. Pain in the butt snakes. Not the same experience with females and not the same experience with Hog Islands.

Bottom line is -- besides being source references, these posts are nothing more than individual's opinions, antecdotal experiences, and varying interpretations of similar circumstances viewed through different eyes.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

i understand what you mean. in the wild, there is no guarenteed feeding day or time...so i guess a lot of it has to do with the amount of exercise and space the snake has to cover...

i know a lot of breeders keep their animals in small cages to conserve space...my snakes have 4 x 2 x 2 cages...so they have fairly large space to move around in...not to mention i handle them at least every other day for at least 30 min...(except for after they eat...i give them 2 days with no handling after feeding.)

anyways, i will take what i have learned from this post...and apply it in the future.
-----
1.1.0 Hogg Island Boa
0.1.0 Albino Columbian Boa
1.0.0 Carpet Python
0.0.1 Red Albino Cornsnake
1.0.0 Pastel Ball Python
0.1.0 Cinnamon Ball Python
0.0.1 Aberrant California Kingsnake
1.0.0 Greek Tortoise
1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Hypo Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Leopard Toad
2.2.0 Dogs
1.2.0 Cats
1.0.0 Rabbit
1.1.0 Hissing Cockroaches
....................................

Shed Your Fears!
www.freewebs.com/ShedYourFears

Wild Boa are primarly ambush preditors so they dont do just alot of cruising for prey

>>i understand what you mean. in the wild, there is no guarenteed feeding day or time...so i guess a lot of it has to do with the amount of exercise and space the snake has to cover...
>>
>>-----
>>1.1.0 Hog Island Boa
>>0.1.0 Albino Columbian Boa
>>1.0.0 Carpet Python
>>0.0.1 Red Albino Cornsnake
>>1.0.0 Pastel Ball Python
>>0.1.0 Cinnamon Ball Python
>>0.0.1 Aberrant California Kingsnake
>>1.0.0 Greek Tortoise
>>1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
>>1.0.0 Hypo Leopard Gecko
>>1.0.0 Leopard Toad
>>2.2.0 Dogs
>>1.2.0 Cats
>>1.0.0 Rabbit
>>1.1.0 Hissing Cockroaches
>>....................................
>>
>>Shed Your Fears!
>>www.freewebs.com/ShedYourFears
-----
TnK

They sure are. Let me tell you something I figured out. Maybe I read it, but don't remember where. Ever notice how a hungry little Red Tail will twitch his tail in anticipation of a meal?
That's why their tails are colored and patterned as they are. Caudal lureing, same thing as all the little pit vipers with their bright little tails, that co-habit the same ecosystems. Lay motionless in a coil on a trail and twitch that tail. Dinner comes to you.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

my anery does that all the time lol

I always figured that was the reason for the cool red tails evolving. My boas do this behavior but my boyfriend's two milk snakes and my corn snake do this too. Perhaps they do caudal luring even though they don't have the brightly colored tails?

No. Milksnakes and Kingsnakes vibrate their tails in irritation.
Somewhat of a Rattlesnake mimic routine.
What I'm talking about in baby boas is a twitch. Much more discrete.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Both my Hogs from 2 different lines twitch but they do it more while eating, maybe to distract from the head movements while swollowing and defenseless. Or they are just very excited.

Also have a juvi eastern garter that tail twitches not vibrate when bothered and not wanting to eat. Neat when you pick up on some of their habits.

Kinda of like the "lure" alligator snappers use in thier mouth to attract fish.

Exactly.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

One thing I have noticed with Hog Islands is they are garbage cans. Always ready to eat. Never turn down a meal.
They are a lean snake by nature. When I feed young ones, they always put it on in length and not in additional girth.
If your snake has that distinct squarish cross-section form and no fat rolls she's probably not over fed. Hog Island and Suriname are two distinct subspecies/localities with very different survival srategies, growth and longevity characteristics due to different ecological niches. Put another way, Hogs grow up a heck of a lot faster than Bcc.
If your girl is ready, she will probably throw slugs if not put with the male. I can't say if she is ready or not by this behavior.
More opinions/input on this would be a good thing, I should think.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

here is my 3 yr old hogg X flicka with boyfriend also a hogg X, she is biggest of her litter, but also fed her 1 lrg rat/week when she got that size, now she is 97" 30#'s, bred is questionable, also never turns down a meal.

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1.4 various boas(Flicka,Felony,Nova,Alias,Alibi,confessa,custody,Ms.Demeanor)
0.1 BRB Abalone; ABBI
1.0 Rott X (OSO)
2.0 cats (Simba, Morris)
fish & feeders

That's one BIG beautiful girl. The light tones are the only thing Hogg-like I see in that picture.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Hogg should be proper for the Hog X cross'

HOG Isle for the true strains.

>>That's one BIG beautiful girl. The light tones are the only thing Hogg-like I see in that picture.
>>jsc
>>-----
>>"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
>>John Crickmer
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TnK

What about Hoglumbians or Hoginams Or Boss Hog?

Hogglubians,Hogginams,Boss Hogg
Respectfully ah'Coarse !!

On a side note of sorts,when I view classifieds and I see HOGG ISLAND,I dont even give it the time of day much less a look at the animals offered.

>>What about Hoglumbians or Hoginams Or Boss Hog?
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TnK

I think you're saying people that spell it "Hogg" instead of "Hog", don't really know enough to differentate their snake from a True Hog Isle.
Their incorrect use of the terminology is a dead giveaway, they don't know what they're talking about. Isn't that what you're saying?
Just call me stupid.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Don't feel bad, I used to spell it incorrectly all the time, but I also don't breed them. I do agree w/ TnK about not wanting to buy an animal from someone misinformed. I almost always look away from "Columbian boa" ads (should be Colombian) and people who sell "co-dom hypos" referring to your regular heterozygous hypo. Even "Surinam" boas bother me since technically it should be Suriname, though I don't look away from those ads.

lets see if it influences the classifieds lol

Shoot Naaw' wont change diddly !There will still be those hawkers out there trying to push those washed out and diluted variant of eH'cha Oh'double Gee of who knows what breedings ?

>>lets see if it influences the classifieds lol
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TnK

yeah, when i bought her she was labeled as "hog island boa" ...it didn't say pure, but it didn't say cross either...

i was never really sure, but i thought/hoped that maybe she was just a "real" hoggie, considering a lot of breeders breed them for the high orange...i thought perhaps she was just a normal, not special baby...

anyways, when i sell the babies, i will make sure to label them properly, i will make sure whoever buys them knows that they may not be 100%...

although it is kind of disheartening to know that she may not be pure but she will always be my favorite snake
-----
1.1.0 Hogg Island Boa
0.1.0 Albino Columbian Boa
1.0.0 Carpet Python
0.0.1 Red Albino Cornsnake
1.0.0 Pastel Ball Python
0.1.0 Cinnamon Ball Python
0.0.1 Aberrant California Kingsnake
1.0.0 Greek Tortoise
1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Hypo Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Leopard Toad
2.2.0 Dogs
1.2.0 Cats
1.0.0 Rabbit
1.1.0 Hissing Cockroaches
....................................

Shed Your Fears!
www.freewebs.com/ShedYourFears

hoggie ?

LoL !! j/k

>>yeah, when i bought her she was labeled as "hog island boa" ...it didn't say pure, but it didn't say cross either...
>>
>>i was never really sure, but i thought/hoped that maybe she was just a "real" hoggie, considering a lot of breeders breed them for the high orange...i thought perhaps she was just a normal, not special baby...
>>
>>anyways, when i sell the babies, i will make sure to label them properly, i will make sure whoever buys them knows that they may not be 100%...
>>
>>although it is kind of disheartening to know that she may not be pure but she will always be my favorite snake
>>-----
>>1.1.0 Hog Island Boa
>>0.1.0 Albino Columbian Boa
>>1.0.0 Carpet Python
>>0.0.1 Red Albino Cornsnake
>>1.0.0 Pastel Ball Python
>>0.1.0 Cinnamon Ball Python
>>0.0.1 Aberrant California Kingsnake
>>1.0.0 Greek Tortoise
>>1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
>>1.0.0 Hypo Leopard Gecko
>>1.0.0 Leopard Toad
>>2.2.0 Dogs
>>1.2.0 Cats
>>1.0.0 Rabbit
>>1.1.0 Hissing Cockroaches
>>....................................
-----
TnK

LOL

ok to keep it legit....

Whether our snake has a pedigree, is one in a million, the first and only of it's kind, cost us 5 figures or cost us fifty bucks -- we're all so very proud of it.
We're so proud that it's feeding and adjusting to our ministrations. We're so proud when we successfully breed our first litter. We're so proud with our success at that next step up in difficulty, in rarity, in price tier. We all started somewhere. We all owe our success to those with less experience and knowledge, just as we owe those with more. Those who support us as well as those who challenge us. Who are you going to sell your offspring to -- to acquire the capital necessary for that project at the next level? It's up to you to unselfishly pass that knowledge and wisdom on, just as it was passed on to you.
This thing is an ongoing and continuous learning process, a challenge. Otherwise it's just work.
My spelling, grammer, and syntax is horrible anyway. No spell-check in this little box. Sorry.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

well put

-----
1.1.0 Hogg Island Boa
0.1.0 Albino Columbian Boa
1.0.0 Carpet Python
0.0.1 Red Albino Cornsnake
1.0.0 Pastel Ball Python
0.1.0 Cinnamon Ball Python
0.0.1 Aberrant California Kingsnake
1.0.0 Greek Tortoise
1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Hypo Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Leopard Toad
2.2.0 Dogs
1.2.0 Cats
1.0.0 Rabbit
1.1.0 Hissing Cockroaches
....................................

Shed Your Fears!
www.freewebs.com/ShedYourFears

Here is a simple tool to fix that,it corrects subject line as well as message body. Simply downlowd it and add it to your tool bar.
http://tinyurl.com/z14z

>>My spelling, grammer, and syntax is horrible anyway. No spell-check in this little box. Sorry.
>>jsc
>>-----
>>"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
>>John Crickmer
-----
TnK

I didn't know that.
Thanks.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

Just some info.

My 05 female is much smaller and gets 1 rat pup or weaned rat per week. She is one of my favorites and is doing great. Can't wait to breed her but I also don't want to shorten her life because of my greed for little ones from her. So I wait...

My male gets less weekly but is a year younger also.

I wasn't trying to push her...i was just under the impression that you feed one rodent appx. under 1.5 times the size of the snakes body per week....and that's what i have done with all of my snakes...corns, kings, boas, pythons...

everywhere i have read or found info has said appx 1.5 times the body width or under... (although i have read that carpet pythons can eat 3x their body width, i don't intend on testing that...

also, the size of a large rat from company to company varies....

either way, i have gotten some advice and definately some opinions from this post...
-----
1.1.0 Hogg Island Boa
0.1.0 Albino Columbian Boa
1.0.0 Carpet Python
0.0.1 Red Albino Cornsnake
1.0.0 Pastel Ball Python
0.1.0 Cinnamon Ball Python
0.0.1 Aberrant California Kingsnake
1.0.0 Greek Tortoise
1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Hypo Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Leopard Toad
2.2.0 Dogs
1.2.0 Cats
1.0.0 Rabbit
1.1.0 Hissing Cockroaches
....................................

Shed Your Fears!
www.freewebs.com/ShedYourFears

Here is a recent picture of Arie, the Hog island...( i never realized that the spelling of hogg and hog made any difference, but i guess i know now!)

anyways, take what you like from the photo...

-----
1.1.0 Hogg Island Boa
0.1.0 Albino Columbian Boa
1.0.0 Carpet Python
0.0.1 Red Albino Cornsnake
1.0.0 Pastel Ball Python
0.1.0 Cinnamon Ball Python
0.0.1 Aberrant California Kingsnake
1.0.0 Greek Tortoise
1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Hypo Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Leopard Toad
2.2.0 Dogs
1.2.0 Cats
1.0.0 Rabbit
1.1.0 Hissing Cockroaches
....................................

Shed Your Fears!
www.freewebs.com/ShedYourFears

Your Boa is definately not overweight and doesn't look pushed to me. I'd have to say by the photo, she's not pure Hog Isle though. Been out crossed with Common Boa (Bci) most likely.
That's probably why she's so large for her age.
jsc
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"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

here are some pics of the male, to my knowledge, he is a pure hog... he is definately much longer and leaner than the female, but this is obvious considering he is younger & a male...

-----
1.1.0 Hogg Island Boa
0.1.0 Albino Columbian Boa
1.0.0 Carpet Python
0.0.1 Red Albino Cornsnake
1.0.0 Pastel Ball Python
0.1.0 Cinnamon Ball Python
0.0.1 Aberrant California Kingsnake
1.0.0 Greek Tortoise
1.0.0 Normal Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Hypo Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Leopard Toad
2.2.0 Dogs
1.2.0 Cats
1.0.0 Rabbit
1.1.0 Hissing Cockroaches
....................................

Shed Your Fears!
www.freewebs.com/ShedYourFears

yea he looks pretty good to me

Ive seen smalls the size of weaned rats and larges the size of jumbos. Like you said suppliers have different views on size. I recently started to breed my own rodents and now Ive come to the decision to start with rabbits as well! lol I have a mini Zoo.

2.4 various boas
0.0.1 water monitor
0.2 dogs
1.0 ferret
1.2 cats
No idea on how many damn rodents I have but its never enough.

Coming soon
SEAMONKIES!!!
jk.

Ok, we have one person that is feeding too much by about 2x and you are feeding .3x the amount you should! A two year old boa (doesn’t mater what kind at that amount) eating pups and weaned! What did you feed her when she was little, dwarf Pigmy mice pinkies? I had a girlfriend that ate nothing also and she said “she was just fine”.

Is that criticism harsh enough for you all? After all I’m always right.
As far as the spelling issue is concerned, the owners spelling skill has NOTHING to do with genetics of the animal…at least I hope not!