Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Anybody know how difficult this animal is-- temp requirement, cold tolerance, diet requirement, growth rate, and such...

I've been reading about them but when it comes to diet, some says they have the same diet as a redfoot while others says same as sulcata's.

In general, redfoots are opportunistic omnivores, they eat almost anything but will deform if fed a monotonous diet or one too rich in protein (vegetable or animal). The aldabras are hardy but I have seen many, forced by too rich a diet and a corresponding accelerated growth rate, with deformed shells. The same is true for sulcatas and leopards. They are dry grassland or desert animals and should not be fed fruit, high protein vegetable matter(legumes, sprouts) or meat. I refer you to Highfield's dietary recommendations.

ummm... you're a bit mistaken here.

The rate of growth or the amount of protein has absolutely no bearing on the shape of the shell of any tortoise.

If the 'monotonous' diet is well formed and balanced it again has no bearing on the shape of any tortoises shell.

The deformed shells are the result of improper environmental conditions for the most part.

Aldabras are one of the few tortoises that are well documented in feeding on carrion and are even considered canibalistic at times.

>>In general, redfoots are opportunistic omnivores, they eat almost anything but will deform if fed a monotonous diet or one too rich in protein (vegetable or animal). The aldabras are hardy but I have seen many, forced by too rich a diet and a corresponding accelerated growth rate, with deformed shells. The same is true for sulcatas and leopards. They are dry grassland or desert animals and should not be fed fruit, high protein vegetable matter(legumes, sprouts) or meat. I refer you to Highfield's dietary recommendations.
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I've spoken with a handful of people regarding a solid diet for Aldabra Torts. What I found common in all situations is...

1)Timothy hay
2)Burmuda Grass
3)Dandelions, and long stem fiberous weeds.
4)Collard greens
5)Endive
6)No fruit or sugary foods on a regular basis
7)No protein, as most moist veggies have more than enough

I use a combination of grassland tortoise food, forest tortoise food, opuntia cactus, and chopped up weeds and greens for my M.E. Phayrei whose dietary requirements are a bit different from an Aldabras. The aldabra as I've found is a grassland grazing giant.
While they may take protein in the wild, this is probably negated by the amount of dry grass that they consume. I would not offer any high protein food to a captive other than what is found in a food like Mazuri or the like.

I've always read/heard that too much protein will cause pyramiding. While this may or may not be, I feel it is wise to keep protein levels low. Also, I tend to think that pyramiding occurs with an overly rich diet. Too much of everything especially multivitamins.

Just my 2 cents!
-Kory

Those that say too much protien causes pyramiding obviously do not know a great deal about nutrition. They also do not have a great deal of experience to make such a statement.

Eventually it will catch on that protein is a necessary and improtant nutrient and that too much of it is no worse than to much of anything else.

Oh... the problem with the list mentioned is that it is too restrictive... Aldabs eat anything and everything organic.

They are truely unique and interesting tortoises.

>>I've spoken with a handful of people regarding a solid diet for Aldabra Torts. What I found common in all situations is...
>>
>>1)Timothy hay
>>2)Burmuda Grass
>>3)Dandelions, and long stem fiberous weeds.
>>4)Collard greens
>>5)Endive
>>6)No fruit or sugary foods on a regular basis
>>7)No protein, as most moist veggies have more than enough
>>
>>I use a combination of grassland tortoise food, forest tortoise food, opuntia cactus, and chopped up weeds and greens for my M.E. Phayrei whose dietary requirements are a bit different from an Aldabras. The aldabra as I've found is a grassland grazing giant.
>>While they may take protein in the wild, this is probably negated by the amount of dry grass that they consume. I would not offer any high protein food to a captive other than what is found in a food like Mazuri or the like.
>>
>>I've always read/heard that too much protein will cause pyramiding. While this may or may not be, I feel it is wise to keep protein levels low. Also, I tend to think that pyramiding occurs with an overly rich diet. Too much of everything especially multivitamins.
>>
>>Just my 2 cents!
>>-Kory
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Wow EJ, you certainly shut them up. LOL...

That was not the intent... I was just trying to correct some misconceptions on keeping this unbelievable species.

>>Wow EJ, you certainly shut them up. LOL...
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

had steak and baked potatoes. LOL

No doubt... these guys are the pigs of the tortoise world...

Look at where they come from... they have to be able to eat everything.

>>had steak and baked potatoes. LOL
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Aldabras inhabit desert isles with high population densities and high mortality due to marginal habitat, scarce resources and lack of cover from brutal sun and hot, dry, rocky conditions. There are opportunities and evolutionary survival reasons for scavenging behaviors. And other herbivorous tortoises will sometimes scavenge. But aldabras are basically herbivores regardless of what they may be fed in captivity.

I stand by my post.

Kory: We're on the same page. I don't even use Mazuri.

For the best treatment to date of the issues raised in this "controversy", see Mike Pingleton's excellent article on Pyramidal Growth Syndrome in World Chelonian Trust Newsletter Vol.3 No.1

and please consider joining while you're at it.

Probably the best reference to date on the natural history of the Aldabra tortoise is J. Gerlachs book on The Giant Tortoises of the Indian Ocean. It gives a pretty good run down of the natural history of this tortoise.

On the Pyramiding... every tortoise keeper has their own idea. Some of them are unique and some are way out there but it is slowly coming to light that protein has very little to do with the process. I can understand why it is difficult to accept because so many tortoise keepers have been saying for years protein was the cause... they would then have to admit they were wrong. Many tortoise keepers seem to have a problem admitting as much.

Anyway... I suggest that anyone keeping these tortoises do a little research starting with Gerlachs book and then hunting down the references he cites.

As mentioned earlier... they are truely unique... as I watch one lumbering back to his enclosure after his morning walk... Out at 7am 31 degrees F... back in at 11am and 39 degrees F
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

Often one of the hardest things to do is admit, after consistently professing something, that you were wrong. But that's the way herpetology and other sciences work. That's why we no longer believe that the sun rotates around the Earth. Just in the same way I feel like tortoise keepers will start to realize that pyramiding is not caused by quick growth Always have to toss in my 2 cents...until I am proven wrong at least. My belief on the protein debate is that the hastened growth simply makes pyramiding appear more rapidly, but I place the cause of pyramiding on humidity/hydration. But I am no expert. Just a guy with some tortoises.

I enjoy reading your posts, and though I don't feed Mazuri to my russians or my redfoot, I am planning on giving it a try in the near future. I can't see myself using it as a complete diet, but I can understand where it would come in handy with large tortoises that would, as you have illustrated, annihilate the produce department. being able to buy 25lb bags of the stuff has to be a bit easier (on you and your refrigerator). I feel like it would be good for my small collection to have it on hand since there are times in the winter when conditions are bad and either I cannot make it to the grocery store, or the produce cannot make it there.

I seem to be having trouble in expressing this point in words.

It is convenient to use but I really don't have a problem providing greens and weeds. My problem is understanding what is available in those weeds and greens and what exactly each tortoise needs.

I cautiously started feeding this diet and found that whatever the ratio of nutrients is in this diet... it hits all the marks I'm looking for.

I fail to see why a tortoise should kill themselves and sometimes the tortoise trying to play nutritionist when it is an unbelieveable confusing and argumentative field.

Notice that the new catch phrase is to feed as varied a diet as possible... I don't know about anyone eles but I use that phrase because I really don't have a clue how to explain not only what a tortoise really needs but how to really provide for that need so I place my trust in those that do seem to know what they are talking about.

>>Often one of the hardest things to do is admit, after consistently professing something, that you were wrong. But that's the way herpetology and other sciences work. That's why we no longer believe that the sun rotates around the Earth. Just in the same way I feel like tortoise keepers will start to realize that pyramiding is not caused by quick growth Always have to toss in my 2 cents...until I am proven wrong at least. My belief on the protein debate is that the hastened growth simply makes pyramiding appear more rapidly, but I place the cause of pyramiding on humidity/hydration. But I am no expert. Just a guy with some tortoises.
>>
>>I enjoy reading your posts, and though I don't feed Mazuri to my russians or my redfoot, I am planning on giving it a try in the near future. I can't see myself using it as a complete diet, but I can understand where it would come in handy with large tortoises that would, as you have illustrated, annihilate the produce department. being able to buy 25lb bags of the stuff has to be a bit easier (on you and your refrigerator). I feel like it would be good for my small collection to have it on hand since there are times in the winter when conditions are bad and either I cannot make it to the grocery store, or the produce cannot make it there.
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

The reason I haven't used mazuri yet is partly because I have experienced a lot of success feeding my reptiles a diet of greens and vegetables. I only have five tortoises so I don't have any real data to provide, but the growth rates I've seen with my russians far surpass any others I've read. Particularly my hold back that just turned 1 year of age (friday before thanksgiving) and is just a hair over 4" SCL with no pyramiding. I'm hoping it'll be a large female like the mother. That tortoise has not been fed a varied diet. She mostly eats dandelion greens, romaine, and whatever else is available, dusted once or twice a week with calcium w/d3 and kept without a UV bulb. She's taught me the importance of environmental factors. If what you say is true, I would be interested to see what her growth would do if I were to give her some mazuri.

I don't understand, however, why you are so eager for everyone else to use mazuri. I'm sure it's a great product, but I am more than satisfied with the results I get by feeding greens/veggies (plus fruit and meat for the redfoot).

The reason I push it is because of it's simplicity. I can pull you up hundreds of posts from over the years of what should I feed... Help, what is all the 'white stuff'... My tortoise is not growing... My tortoise is not eating...

Up until recently I was starting to feel guilty of sounding like a Mazuri salesman but it is no different than being a weed salesman or produce salesman.

Here is a simpile product that eleviates many complex problems and it is looked down upon as bad because it is a commercial diet.

It's a mindset which I find very interesting...

Protein causes pyramiding...
Hibernation is a necessity...
Fishtanks are bad enclosures...
commercial diets are bad...
Mixing species is bad...

These are all human conceptions.
Do you really think the tortoise/animal cares how it's needs are met?

I know they don't.

Anyway... this is why I stress this diet. Is it the only diet you should or could use... no... but it is the most simple and complete that I have found so far.
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I side with you on a lot of issues, and I enjoy reading your articles and publications. But that doesn't mean you aren't fair game

I've enjoyed this conversation, and I love the pics, but it's finals week so I'll get back to you next saturday.

I love a good intelligent debate... especially when I'm proven wrong. That is usually when I learn the most.

Good luck on finals.

>>I side with you on a lot of issues, and I enjoy reading your articles and publications. But that doesn't mean you aren't fair game
>>
>>I've enjoyed this conversation, and I love the pics, but it's finals week so I'll get back to you next saturday.
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care